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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
WF dating AM:
The key words in my statement are "all else equal" and the implied notion of a typical Asian woman, which I didn't state but should have.
My point is that if a typical Asian woman actually has the choice between two suitors (whose attentions she wants and to whom she is attracted) who are equal in terms of income, education, attractiveness, sensitivity, common interests with her, etc., she is MORE LIKELY (not 100% probability, more like 80% probability) to choose the Asian man, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.
However, what typically happens with most women is that not all suitors are equal. Women have suitors who are greater in some areas, but worse in other areas. This basically makes a woman look at what areas are most important to her. Individual women's values vary--i.e. some place more value on how much material/monetary wealth a man has and will be more likely to choose a plain-looking man IF he has a large amount of material wealth. (I am speaking here about women & men IN GENERAL, not about just Asian men and women.)
My wife did choose me over a Spanish man (she did not have an Asian suitor at the time she met me, but had many Asian suitors in the past) because she found me more physically attractive than him, because I was more punctual than him, and because I was clearer headed about what I wanted to do with my life than he was. In the very early days of our dating, if an Asian man whom she found attractive and was otherwise my equal were to have begun to suit her, he would have had a good chance of wooing her away from me. However, such an opportunity didn't present itself to her early in our dating life. After we'd gotten to know eachother and committed to eachother, there was little or no chance of it happening.
This is NOT becuase I think I'm "superior" to any potential Asian suitor she could have had after we committed to eachother, but because after that point in time, we had bonded together as a couple. Once a those bonds form deeply in earnest, it is very difficult to break (unless one of the partners starts lying, cheating, or committing some sort of SERIOUS offense.)
So my point is that even though it is MORE LIKELY for someone to choose someone of their own race if all potential mates are equal, it is not 100% guaranteed that this will happen, especially since all suitors are NOT equal and because not all men or women have the best criteria for choosing mates.
Hank Lewis
Friday, August 30, 2002 at 07:52:15 (PDT)
[12.65.204.252]
Been checking out the postings on this board and I’d have to say that there are quite a few interesting points but I would have to agree with Political Observer that in the SF/Bay area, there is quite a predilection for some AF’s to date only WM’s. Having grown up on the East coast in the suburbs, my own personal dating experience has only been with WF’s but in my defense, it was rare for me to run into AF’s, period. Since coming to CA, I’ve run into many more attractive AF’s and while it would be a first for me, would certainly date an AF if the chemistry was there. It’s hard enough to find that special someone, why restrict yourself to any particular race or ethnicity?
What I find hard to believe is that I’ve run into plenty of AF’s born and raised in the Bay area who have ONLY dated WM’s. My thought is that if you live in an area where Asians make up something like 20% of the population and you’ve never dated someone of your own race, you really have to be making a conscious effort to not do so. And these same AF’s that have never dated an AM will tell me, “You know I’ve never dated an AM but I would date you…” I’m not sure how they want me to take a comment like that, should I be flattered?! Walking through the streets of SF I often run into many AF/WM couples and while many look just like two typical lovebirds, there are quite a few that fall into the category that Political Observer described, you walk by the two and she has her nose up in the air and looks over at the AM in derision. Or you see a very short AF clinging onto a tall WM (not necessarily an attractive WM) as if he were a life preserver. Or you see an attractive AF with a very goofy, pot-bellied WM and she looks totally embarassed. I admit, I do check these couples out, purely out of curiosity and the couples I described above, typically have me shaking my head and chuckling under my breath. From the WM perspective, I have known quite a few with very pronounced interest in only dating AF’s, but to be honest with you, a lot of these WM’s (while being my friend) were a bit dorky and I have to believe that their attraction to AF’s had a lot to do with the belief that they would have better success with an AF vs. a WF.
Now Hank Lewis brings up an interesting point, there are quite a few WF’s, BF’s and LF’s that he sees with unattractive WM’s so it can’t be an ethnic/Asian thing, can it? I do partially agree with him on that point but I think that the concern lies in the degree in which AF’s may be totally disregarding AM’s. While all my stories are totally anecdotal, I find it less common to find WM’s who have a thang for BF’s and LF’s. And I think that BF’s and LF’s with WM’s are not as common in IR couples. My other thought is that in the Bay area with it’s high concentration of Asians, I rarely see WF/AM couples. I do find it interesting that when I do hang out with some of my WF friends or have been out on a date with a WF, I have seen a LOT of heads turn, both from WF’s and AF’s. So I think the concern is this disparity between AF/WM couples vs. WF/AM couples. In the Bay area where there are so many Asians, it’s hard to understand why it happens. Do I think some of these AF’s are sell-outs? As harsh as it may sound, yes, I do think that some are sell-outs. I don’t understand how that in an area with so many Asians, so much Asian culture ingrained for decades, that you could think that you were too good for males of your own race and ethnicity. Since living in the Bay area, I’ve gained a much stronger appreciation for my own culture and sort of wonder what it would have been like for me to have grown up in an area where I would have had a much stronger connection with my own Chinese background. I think it’s great to be living in such a diverse area as the Bay area but often wonder why there aren’t more IR relationships. That special someone that you’re looking for just may not be just like you and I think it takes a lot of courage to understand that. So on that note, I hope you all find that special someone, regardless of what race they are... Peace out...
Ronbo (Bay Area/SF)
howudoinsf@hotmail.com
Thursday, August 29, 2002 at 23:10:58 (PDT)
[12.81.78.118]
Political Observor states:
Let me ask you guys an honest question (no ulterior motives trust me), are there cultural reasons why so many asian women prefer white and black men. It just seems that there must be some reason why many asian women leave asian men in droves to seek guys of other races in relationships.
So many Asian women dating white and black guys? What is so many to you? Last major article regarding inter racial romance was in Time mag or US News & Report(?) about a year ago. It pointed out that about 25% of Asian American women marry outside of their race. Out of those less than 2 % married either Hispanic men or black men. What's with all this hysteria??
Hysteria
Thursday, August 29, 2002 at 20:09:53 (PDT)
Dear Hank Lewis
I did say don't yell at me but what I am saying is the majority of my non-Asian friends have said that to me. That is their observation and you are not going to change the minds of 20 or so people. Of course there are attractive AF who choose whom they wish to go out with, but tell me something, have you ever seen a very goodlooking WM with a AF? The only one I know of is Sam Neill, the actor who has a Japanese wife (who is very pretty I might add), and some may not even called him a hunk. Personally I can tell you that I have been approached by a number of ugly WM who think I will go out with them just because I am AF, and get very snarly when I turned them down. I don't thing they wil approach WM with the same kind of attitude, that's all.
Justagirl
Thursday, August 29, 2002 at 17:56:22 (PDT)
Hi Geoff,
I agree with your comment that AFs tend to be high maintenance, but I disagree with your comment that AFs will expect the same level of economic power from WM/BM as they do from AM . I think to an AF, not being asian is like a tax-break for those WM/BM who aren't as economically well off.
Hank, Geoff and Political O.
From the descriptions that you guys give, it seems to me that Toronto is NOT the place to be if you're an AM wanting to date an AF. You guys all paint rosey pictures of how AF see all men as equals. Up here in the Arctic circle, it seems to me the playing field is very tilted towards non-AM, when it comes to dating AFs that is.
huu76
Thursday, August 29, 2002 at 17:54:28 (PDT)
"In other words, all else being equal between an Asian man and a White man, an Asian woman is more likely to choose the Asian man."
Hank Lewis
Yup, you are absolutley right about this. That is why there are more AM/AF couples. I have also come accross some hot AF that would only date AM, kinda like how MLK is. I think MLK is a great girl. I do appreciate some of her post. Too bad she is not here anymore!!!!
Azn-Pride
Thursday, August 29, 2002 at 17:33:09 (PDT)
"Everyone wants to be with someone like themself, someone with whom they have many things in common, someone they can relate to, share opinins on various subjects with, etc. You automatically assume that "someone like yourself" means the superficial- race, ethnicity- the cover of the book, rather than what's inside."
curious girl
Of course, commonality isn't only the color of your skin. As you stated, it's everything, your viewpoints, personality, goals, education, religion, morals, etc. It runs the entire gamut.
Still, you can't fight human nature or its desire to be homogeneous. If I had a choice between a WF with everything I had in common, versus an AF with little in common.... of course, I'd pick the WF. I am not saying that I'd ignore the contents of the "book". It gets more trickier when both girls have the same traits....then I'd pick the girl with the biggest b--- ok, it's an old joke... sorry.
When it comes down to it..... it's all about timing! Depends on who I meet first, the "perfect" WF, the "perfect" AF and in between I gotta deal with all the pretenders.
NotConfusedAsianDude
Thursday, August 29, 2002 at 16:40:52 (PDT)
Curious Girl
"Not all people that date outside their race based their choice solely on race."
It may not be the sole reason, it is a part of the reason. I don't think anyone that dates interracially can deny the fact that race does not play a role. Whether small or large, race always has an impact in the selection process. This is more true in the early stages of dating, because as the relationship blossoms and grows, race becomes inconsequential.
"Well that may be, but for those AMs who prefer to date WFs, they find the effort and energy worthwhile. They find that dating who they want is more important to their happiness than approval from friends and family. Do you let your friends and familys' opinions rule your life?"
I've dated WF's, and some of them were not worth my effort. The same can be said of some of the AF's. Finding happiness is a balance and it's not all about myself. I have yet found a female that would make me renounce my friends and disavow my family. Blood is always thicker than water, and I surely hope I never meet a woman that would prove this wrong. If we lived in a Eutopian world, hellyeah, I'd pick the girl that makes me happy - irregardless. But, this is the real world, and I do have to take other people's oppinions into consideration. Otherwise, I'd be another prick that doesn't give a sh!t about anyone but myself. I am not really worried about my friends and family -- afterall, my lil' bro has only dated WF's his entire life, and there certainly isn't a shortage of AF's in SoCal.
Until I meet a WF who looks like Claire Forlani, torts like Ally, cooks like Martha, Mother Teresa's humility and Queen Noor's grace.... I'll continue to ask my friends and family for their opinnions because I can be awfully blind, at times. It doesn't mean I'll heed their advice. I just like to stick in a thermometer, once in a while, just to make sure I am not burning myself.
NotConfusedAsianDude
Thursday, August 29, 2002 at 16:25:45 (PDT)
Hank,
you wrote
"Don't try to make this out to be some kind of an Asian issue. It's more of a male/female issue that transcends ethnicity."
I would agree to some extent but I stand by my statement. It's obvious depending on where you live. Maybe the AF in san francisco have a different mindset than the ones who live in houston. san francisco has a different mix of AM/AF. In fremont and oakland asians tend to maintain their ethnicity more.
Political Observer
Thursday, August 29, 2002 at 14:45:47 (PDT)
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