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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:35 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
"Zommboids via the Caucasian Persuasian"
Tisk tisk.
I will attempt to define and coin some words and phrases in this article. People need words to think and put things into perspective, hence I hope that these words and phrases will give clear meaning and maybe even feelings to the individuals who have the ability to accept them as part of their vocabulary.
I am this so called Asian American male. Age 32. Occupations: scientist, engineer and teacher.
The current state of affairs in which the great majority of Asian females (and Asian males) have a strong desire for Caucasians above the desires for another Asian is of course a orchestration of the American and European media (and even that of asian financing)
However, no one forces people to watch TV or go to the movies and waste a great part of their lives engraving hyped up images of Caucasians and images of humiliation (towards Asians) into their passive minds.
Given that we are quite thoroughly brain washed towards the "Caucasian persuasion", any comments negatively criticizing Caucasians will be perceived by the brain washed individual Asian minds as a "dirty word."
Hence, a healthy intelligent individual will accept the harsh realities of Asians in general having a deep longing to be with Caucasians or even wanting to be a Caucasian (a state which I refer to as Zommboidism) and go on with life. Especially important for Asian males is to avoid lecturing Asian females on the Zommboid situation. As I have said before any such comments will be perceived by the brain washed mind as a "dirty word."
Consider this Zommboid problem as a scientific phenomenon or a business model rather then a social problem. Only then can we start remedying the situation. For if we state the problem as a social one our minds would react to any actions to correct it as a hostile battle towards the Caucasians (who we unconditionally and unknowingly love and admire and almost exist as part of their lives) rather then a defensive measure.
As I have emphasized before it is important especially for the Asian males that he not try to lecture the Asian females on the Zommboid situation. One, any attempts to un-brain wash in a single afternoon a life time of brain washing is simply impossible. Two, the brain washing effect is done in a first person perspective through the eyes of a Caucasian, and negative images of Asians in a 2nd or 3rd person perspective. Hence, any non complementing comments concerning Caucasians will be instinctively perceived by the Zommboid mind as a insult to them.
Conclusion:
I am unfortunately a victim myself. A Zommboid I am and probably will be for the rest of my life. Hence, the beauty and images of Caucasian females instinctively in my mind has a much higher value then that of Asian females. I am fully conscious of this problem and aware of it when my misconstrued values and feelings prejudice my actions.
I am hence a damaged product of society and should not raise a pure Asian daughter for surly she will sense this (as well as my Asian wife) flaw in me.
I will always, against my will, judge Asian females as second class citizens. And I will always hate myself for thinking this way.
It is too late for us (adult Asians). However, perhaps we can prevent the same from occurring to our children, whether purely Asian or mixed.
Should the Asians attempt to unbrain wash society by showing hyped up images of Asians in the first person perspective while in the background negatively contrast Caucasians in the 2nd and 3rd person perspective ?
This is a PhD paper in itself. And the sensitivity of Caucasians of any negative contrasting of their race to any other race would surely devastate any trade relations Asia has with America and Europe.
It is a sad situation. I am sometimes embarrassed to be part of a race where men pay white prostitutes large amounts of money to fulfill their ultimate sexual fantasies which can not be derived from asian females and where the women would rather raise arms against father and brother then to defend them from hostile forces which degrade their spirits.
zommboid@yahoo.com
Life long observer
zommboid@yahoo.com
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 07:08:36 (PST)
[24.90.172.214]
Some asian women are total snobs to asian men, for whatever deep-seated reasons they may have. Visa versa.
I don't know why some asian men (or women) get so bent out of shape about it. If an asian chick wants to date only white men--for either healthy or unhealthy reasons--so be it. Nobody owes you anything. I'm tired of hearing comments about "selling out," as if such people are obligated to date within their own race.
My attitude is "F-'em."
I grew up in the US, in a predominantly white area, so of course I was primarily attracted to white girls. Doesn't mean I find them all attractive. In fact, I find many of them just the opposite.
On the other hand, when I finally did get more exposure to asian girls, by attending a pretty well integrated college, and then having made a first-time ever trip to China last year, I saw many knock-out asian chicks.
There's no sense in regretting things one has no control over, but if I could "do it again," I would have preferred being raised in an area where there were more asian people around overall, especially girls.
By the way, I'm one of the best looking asian guys in the world.
Dan
PS F* Connie Chung.
Dan
Dantrader2000@aol.com
Saturday, November 30, 2002 at 08:30:09 (PST)
[152.163.189.198]
Dear Everyone on this Board:
I guess I should've expected the backlash. Don't worry, my girlfriend has no problems with her self-esteem. She knows that she is beautiful, which is why some people get angry when they see a beautiful couple like us together (though I will admit that I'm not nearly at her level).
Okay, let me be honest: I asked her if she would date me if I were Asian. She said no, because she prefers white men. She only dates white men and has only dated white men. I know it's not something that will make her (or me) popular on this board, but personally, I see nothing wrong with this. Some people like Burger King; others like McDonalds--it's just a fact of life that people have different tastes. Many of the AM on this board prefer WF, but like I said, I see nothing wrong with that. Would you rather her date someone she wasn't attracted to? If you are an AM who prefers WF, does it make sense for you to date an AF? No way! If you are an AM who prefers WF, I say go for it!
Michelle Yeoh was engaged to an American white man named Heldman until sometime last year (this was after she divorced Dickson Poon). Yes, she broke it off, but they were engaged. Christy Chung, Seiko Matsuda, and Maggie Cheung are all highly regarded in Asia by Asians for their beauty. And all of them married white guys. I'm not saying that those other girls you mentioned are unattractive, I'm just saying that many attractive Asian women date and marry us WM too. The point is that there are many AF who are open-minded, and I think that this is a good thing.
I took a few Asian American studies classes in college, so I know how people are bothered by the gender divide. I just think that we shouldn't get upset over something so simple. I have many Asian guy friends, and none of them ever complain to me about the gender divide. Why not? Because they are very open minded. Most of them date Asian women, but even if they dated white girls, I wouldn't care. Why? Because I am open minded.
In the words of Rodney King, "why can't we all just get along?" (I hope you realize this is a joke.)
Peace.
Rob
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 23:59:59 (PST)
[32.100.71.69]
this is how TRUE ASIAN beauty is supposed to look like. ALL ppl w/ skewed notion about beauty need to open your eyes.
The girl is w/ o makeup .
[link]http://www.bangkokstar.com/koreastar/junjihyun/35.htm[/link]
[link]http://www.mm52.com/otheridols/kim_heen/index8.htm[/link]
true beauty
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 21:36:13 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
"surgery is more prevalent in european countries, lebanon, us than it is in Asia."
I agree. It's wrong to bash AFs for getting surgery. Human insecurity is universal. I know so many Indian and Iranian girls who got nosejobs to pare down their large Semitic (jewish looking) noses. I'm sure blacks would jump on the bandwagon if they had the incomes to get surgery. Rich blacks to it already.
Dont Stereotype AFs (AM)
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 21:03:25 (PST)
[128.253.186.46]
TK Chang, you said,
"i have never paid too much attention to bai ling. i have just looked up her photos. she was fine, but she did not blow me away. i would give her an 8, at most. i will have to get a good look at her if i get to see her on the big screen."
Take a minute to look her up on the net. I'm sure you would reconsider.
Bai Ling is BUSTED.
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 21:00:52 (PST)
[128.253.186.46]
Amy tan nemesis:
I don't think she's that ugly..I've seen better pic of her.
yeah amy tan has so many asian nemesis for her portrayal of asias, esp. AM in Joy Luck CLub. But have you read "the kitchen god's wife'? after reading the book i don't think she holds prejudcie to men of her own kind like ppl make it out to be. I've just read her biography and it's true that the life of her father and mother hold a lot of similarities to that of the woman and her man in 'kitcchen's god wife.
she ain't that bad.
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 20:46:30 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
I would apologize if I offended anyone with my opinion that AFs (or females in general) have limited options. I'm not talking about very young or young females. I believe that women who are reaching toward 30 and above do get worried about their age and child bearing clock.
Of course there are always attractive looking couples of same race or IR couples. I've seen attractive looking nonAM/AF couples and AM/nonAF couples. But in general population, couples tend to be average looking more or less (and seems to be less attractive once your age goes over mid 30s.) I work in downtown SF and shop around SF and north peninsula, so most of the WM/AF couples I see are above 30s and thus quite unattractive.
My point is that, for you AMs, is that try be in their shoes and understand the situation they are in and not chastise them as 'sellouts.' It's difficult and insecure when you are single and people are judging you on your appearance. Even my husband was quite surprised when the first time I told him I was always insecure about my looks/youth even though many men and women have always complimented me as a 'very beautiful women.' So imagine what an average women would feel.
Once you get to know them, you may even come to understand them like a sister. Three of my AF friends who married/dating WMs did so become those guys were the only guys that bothered to meet them and they felt that AMs would shun them b/c of their average (or below avg.) looks. (Now one of them is divorced and the other one is ready to dump his WM bf. Their WM mates are possesive or thought they were getting traditional submissive AFs, boy were they wrong.)
I asked my husband about this IR issue and he said what bothered him mostly is the negative media of AMs/AFs. He grew up most of his life in SF where there are tons of AM/AF couples and media/entertainment/cultural/fashion influence from Hong Kong. Couple of his old buddies are 'half breeds' of HK fathers and British/Portugal mothers so he has some understanding. He didn't noticed alot of WM/AF couples until into college and when he started traveling/working out to the surburban areas of the bay area (I guess that's where all the American born Asians grew up at.) He also assumed that some of these AFs had age and child bearing clock against them and they took what was available and he assumed that they loved each other too.
I think some the American born AMs need to be more understanding and not try to play into the 'tick for tack' where if she could do it then I could do it. If you are going for a WF then make sure you love her. Some AFs did this and won't realize their mistake until it's too late. I think there are quite a number of WMs with problems when they can't court WFs who make up half of the US population and have to resort to mail order bribes in impoverish countries or minority women here with lesser options. You can't use the excuse that one group is better looking than another. I think some WMs gave up on WFs b/c of the media depictions of BM athletes/entertainers with gorgeous looking WFs. On the issue of BMs taking WFs away from WMs, I think most of these BMs want to have kids that are less dark skin. Look at the kids of B and W couples, they are considered less black and cherished more than their black cousins. So it's ironic that maybe some of these AMs are doing what these lesser WMs/BMs are doing, giving up on their kind for another.
I think it's sad that AMs would hate AFs b/c of some of their sisters are with WMs. Women have more to worry about marriage and child bearing clock than men. Men don't need to worry about these stuff, all they worry about is will he pick this girl up and will he get laid. Most women don't think like that (unless maybe you are very young.) Maybe there are some 'sellouts' but most have to weigh their options as they think about their age and child bearing clock. So don't chastise every AFs b/c of this and be more understanding. I thought AMs are more sensitive (especially the ones I know in SF.) Stick up for you AF sisters and support them. Don't be a 'sellout' yourself.
** immigrant girl from China
immigrant girl
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 19:38:21 (PST)
[66.127.54.173]
To answer your question, actually, my experiences talking to AF are neither good nor bad. I don't give it much thought.
can one blab overzealously about what he doesn't give much thought? What you said doesn't make any sense. Haha ...you seem to run out of self defense lately...
AM, 26:
i totally agree w/ you. to say bai ling or lucy liu are gorgeous for AF is a disgrace to asian women. How could they hold a cndle to the likes of Gong Li, Joan Chen, Zhang zi yi, Jun JI Hyun, Song Hye Gyo...the list goesn on and on.
speaking of the attractiveness factor in af/wm relationship, i agree w/ someone who made the point that the reason is most people look very average.
WHo are u joking?
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 18:02:42 (PST)
[203.162.121.126]
TAG & Loser!,
Ummm, the difference is that AM are proud of who we are and alot of AF are not. There's a difference between being different and trying to be something you're not.
You can reply if you like, but that's enough for me...for now.
huu76
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 17:26:52 (PST)
[64.231.96.197]
You'd say Connie Chung is average? You must be an easy grader. :)
Apache Driver
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 13:53:20 (PST)
[67.84.132.190]
"i am not aware that michelle yeoh has ever dated a white man."
She dated a white cardiologist from Maryland. But so what? Who cares?
Apache Driver
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 13:27:50 (PST)
[67.84.132.190]
Loser!
It's always the dumb white man that thinks ugly asian chick are beautiful. Man, I don't know what they see. Rob has such awful taste. But for me, Lucy Lui is ugly for sure. Even though she is a star but who gives, I can find better average girls look better then her. And for the american public, they all thing lucy lui is pretty, even to white, spanish and black women. All think she is georgeous. I wouldn't sleep with lucy if you guys pay me. lol
To rob, I don't know whatis his standard of beauty. If he think lucy lui is pretty.. oh mind, i dont know what else to say but fetishism. I always thought is was the non-asian guy who thought lucy lui was pretty but is not. Just a month ago, i was talking to a couple of non-asian chick and they told me the same thing. I was in shock and said what do you girls see in her, and they said exoticness.
karzzzyworld
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 12:26:55 (PST)
[162.83.146.45]
Bob,
If you're happy to be with asian girls then I'm happy for you. I do not have them as my preference. So more asian girl for you buddy. Good Luck! And don't be crying when one of your women fall into our laps, alright.
Peace and happiness
And fob,
Approach an answer more in your direction. Don't let the white men cheat you, make you look dumb and stupid.
deMan
Friday, November 29, 2002 at 12:13:03 (PST)
[162.83.146.45]
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