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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:34 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
Rob,
OK, so your current AF girlfriend wouldn't date you even if you are not white, but you guys are compatible, have similar interests and share the same values? Has she ever told you the reason she only dates whites?
FOP
Wednesday, December 04, 2002 at 09:09:42 (PST)
[207.221.132.26]
To: Rob
“...I'm just saying that many attractive Asian women date and marry us WM too. The point is that there are many AF who are open-minded...”
So, let me ask you: are you saying that Asian women who do not date white men are not open-minded? That the only way you would consider an Asian woman to be open-minded is if they date white men? If so, that’s a rather narrow-minded of you.
And you also wrote:
“...I asked her if she would date me if I were Asian. She said no, because she prefers white men. She only dates white men and has only dated white men. I know it's not something that will make her (or me) popular on this board, but personally, I see nothing wrong with this...”
So your girlfriend is only interested in white men. That’s fine. She is Asian, and will only date white men. So you call her open-minded, right? But if she were to only date Asian men, then she is not open-minded, by your standards, right? Your standards sound a little egotistical and self-serving, don’t they?
Let me guess. If you see a white woman kissing an Asian/black/Hispanic/other non-white man on the street, what do you call her? Open-minded? Or do you call her white trash? You don't have to answer this one.
Fact is, there are many open-minded Asian women who will only date/marry Asian men. Give them a little respect.
Repost
Wednesday, December 04, 2002 at 05:40:34 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
Oh, Please...:
Your statements are the very reason I came to this board--I want to learn why Asian men are so against women like my girlfriend and guys like me. I'd like you to explain your opinions a bit more because I truly don't understand.
First you ask me why I "love discussing this," then you say that I am "a stereotypical ignorant white man." I asked a few questions on this board, and instead of getting responded to, I get attacked. I'll tell you the same thing I told my girlfriend's father: I can't help it if I'm not Asian. You are Asian, and you therefore know more about Asian culture, so all this talk about white privilege means nothing since among Asian people, you have more privilege than me. I never said I was enlightened. Instead of attacking me for being ignorant, why don't you tell me what I need to know about Asian culture?
Read the article on the left side of this page. It says "Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity." This describes my girlfriend. She teaches me Chinese, we go to dragon boat races, we celebrate Chinese New Year, and we go to Asian parties together. So what if she doesn't date Asian men? There are plenty of fish in the sea. Is dating an Asian man a prerequisite for Asian pride? If so, some of the greatest Asian American writers and celebrities fall short. Besides, some of my Chinese male friends tell me that I'm more Asian than they are! Culturally, I'm not asking her to renounce Asian culture. I'm asking her to embrace culture, embrace life, and be herself. What is so wrong about this?
And why do you call her a sellout? She tells me that she is simply more attracted to white men for physical reasons. It has nothing to do with you personally; it's just that she has her preference. She can't help being attracted to WM, the same way you can't help being attracted to AF. Many AM's prefer WF as well. Why should any of us be constrained by race?
I don't understand what you want in the long term. Would you rather have us go back to the days of "separate but equal?"
Rob
Tuesday, December 03, 2002 at 23:11:48 (PST)
[32.102.91.128]
Rob
Your story sounds phony baloney...
"My girlfriend is gorgeous, and it's not just me that thinks so. Many (and I
mean MANY) Asian men have gone after my girlfriend Lisa. I've actually had to witness the rudeness that many of them have shown by flirting with her in
my presence. One AM (not in my presence) asked her out, and when she
told him that she had a white boyfriend, he told her that he never wanted her anyway. You don't know how many times Lisa has cried on my shoulder after receiving poor treatment from AM."
"My girlfriend is gorgeous, and it's not just me that thinks so. Many (and I
mean MANY) Asian men have gone after my girlfriend Lisa."
-----
To say only Ams goes after Lisa and not include others races, WMs, BMs,
Hispanic is too real. Are you the only non-AM to ever hit on her? Even if you try to explain that the other races is a different issue, such oversight is beyond truth.
"I've actually had to witness the rudeness that many of them have shown
by flirting with her in my presence."
-----
No man is ever stupid enough especially AMs) to flirt in front of another man's girlfriend. Have anyone ever witnessed a guy walking up to a couple and asking the gal for availability and personal infos? Rob said this happend MANY times to him!!! Come on... be real now!!! Or maybe the AMs noticed that you are not MAN enough to say "Hey dude, she's with me!" Or maybe your girlfriend Lisa was wearing a T-shirt where the back say "Ignore my date, hit on me please!" This scenario Rob is saying sounds too
ridiculous to be true.
"One AM (not in my presence) asked her out, and when she told him that she
had a white boyfriend, he told her that he never wanted her anyway."
-----
As from another post replying to your post, have anyone ever witnessed
someone else making such a reply "I have a 'white' (or 'AM', 'BM', 'PhD',
'strong', 'gangster', 'nice dressing', 'old', 'rich' or whatever)
boyfriend"? What kind person who say such a classless thing? Anyone with
such sense would say "Sorry, I'm already dating someone" or "I'm have a
boyfriend already." The "he told her that he never wanted her anyway"
is just a throw in by Rob to emphasize his story of mistreatment by the guy.
Rob should know better to say to Lisa "you shouldn't had made such a stupid remark to anyone." Readers don't be naive falling for this story.
"You don't know how many times Lisa has cried on my shoulder after receiving
poor treatment from AM."
-----
I read about only one poor (fictional?) treatment above (guess Rob can't think of anything else.) Anyone know of couples that talk about other people
flirting with them to their spouse? Couples don't even bother talk about
these non-issues. What's the point? "Honey, more people are flirting
with me than you!" I know guys may try to flirt or hit on my wife when she's out without me, I know b/c when we are out together I noticed guys are looking
or staring at her. Hey, that's the price of being an attractive couple.
There are times when some gals may try to flirt with me. I would politely
brush it off. Both of us are very faithful to each other. And my wife and I had never mention anything about these
things. In plain truth if this is true, your Lisa would need psychological
help if she needs to always cry on your shoulders every time someones hits on her.
Use some common sense readers of this webpage, this guy made up the story so
he could vent his opinion. And he's feels good b/c ppl here are falling
for it.
Exposing a white lie
Tuesday, December 03, 2002 at 19:01:25 (PST)
[130.212.118.20]
"they treat this like AIDS or cancer patients"
"they learn to cope"
"Illnesses"
Hmmmm...Sounds like your friends have some severe emotional problems and very low self esteem. Usually the apple does not fall far from the tree. So, you must also have some sort of self esteem issues as well. If not, then why not get some new friends. You know how misery loves company. Usually one can be identified by the peers he chooses to associate. Hmm, and you have chosen a circle of depressing emotionally damaged friendships.
you poor thing :(
Tuesday, December 03, 2002 at 14:03:55 (PST)
[64.12.96.41]
Huu 76: elaborate what? can't come up w/ better response??
you are losing your face in this board... the arguments you are bringing up doesn't make any sense at all, as indicated in my previous post, but you still try to hang on cos you don't wanna lose face...but wether you want it or not people seen you as a loser...Everything you bring up to defend yourself is all very weak argument, kindalike 'i don't give it much thought blah blah...' but you blab consistently about AF...haha i see what 's in your head...you are on the lose side but you just want to be hard headed. My advice for u is to buzz off. SOmetimes hardeadness doesn't help at all. it is only akin to stupidness..haha
get the facts straight!
Tuesday, December 03, 2002 at 12:40:48 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
Hank,
I agree with you on most of those. I really think Lucy Liu is actually a little below average.
She has a very nice figure and hair, but I am not attracted to her face whatsoever.
Just an asian male's viewpoint.
AM
http
Monday, December 02, 2002 at 21:45:46 (PST)
[64.157.188.82]
it's complex:
"You must understand that men have their "clocks" too. We got feelings too."
Men have feelings too.. but who cares?
T'K Chang
t_k_chang@yahoo.com
Monday, December 02, 2002 at 17:07:27 (PST)
[207.167.96.78]
Get my facts straight,
Do elaborate, please.
huu76
Monday, December 02, 2002 at 16:42:15 (PST)
[64.231.109.48]
Lifelong Observer,
Wow, you're really perceptive. I agree with everything you say... there is no point in sugarcoating the issue with political correctness. Most of us non-whites have damaged or malformed self-identities. But we should also learn to accept that try not to pass these flaws down to our children.
I've had the experience of listening to a group of black friends have this same discussion, and to my surprise, they openly admitted their racial inferority complexes. They treat this like AIDs or cancer patients treat their illnesses. They learn to cope, and make every effort to ensure that others are not infected.
Good post!
Monday, December 02, 2002 at 11:34:04 (PST)
[128.253.186.46]
ya know what guys, I don't know white people very well. I mean, the way they think and all. But I sometimes feel that white men just don't care about who white women choose to be in interracial relationships with. The reason why I think so is because you see them broadcast on t.v. Publish books about it. And once asian people appear in mainstream society then they will be recognize even more. When that is done, then more people will be more open minded toward asian american and interracial relationship between asian and other group will grow in number. With this new events that is happening about chinese new year being a new york city holiday. Does any one know this? This will help us get assimalated into american society. I think this help asians image a lot.
Personwhoknows
Monday, December 02, 2002 at 10:58:09 (PST)
[162.83.146.45]
Rob,
I follow all your points about WM/AF relations, but all you really need to understand that the discussion of the WM/AF topic is basically on the same level as a white lecturer attempting to discuss the 'biological intelligence' of African Americans at a Southern Black college. I don't know why you love discussing this, but it just reeks of memories of colonialism. You will get negative backlash no matter what you think until maybe in another 50 years when we all forget, or when Asia is wealthy and scores of white women flee america and Europe to marry Asian men. But until then, you will always hear grumbling from Asians, both men and women. Don't expect any less.
Also, understand that Asians in America number less than 10 million. We are a very small minority, and every Asian male or female that marries a white has a proportionately larger impact on the community than if one of you whites (who number in the hundreds of millions) marry an Asian. So, for Asian people who wish to preserve their heritage and bloodline, this is a major issue no matter how you look at it.
And in regards to your girlfriend, by most Asians' standards, she IS a sellout. I dunno if she never gave you her reasons for only liking white men, but if its because she is angry at Asian men or hates the color of her skin, her eyes, or her culture, then she is an idiot sellout. No doubt about that. However, if she claims to have been exposed to a lot of Euro-centric media and thus brainwashed, then she is just a banana, not a sellout. This isn't as bad as being a sellout, but I don't think it's anything to brag about.
Rob, you need to basically stop being such a sterotypical ignorant white man. You make yourself sound like an enlightened man. You're anything but that. You have a basic understanding of Asian issues in America, but you've only scratched the surface. I'm not enraged at you; I'm merely a bit annoyed at your cavalier attitude toward Asian outmarriage. Then again, you're a white in america-- you can afford to do that. One of the many perks of being white in America.
Oh, Please.....
Monday, December 02, 2002 at 10:33:25 (PST)
[128.253.186.46]
A wise man once said "There's no disputing taste." Or as my dear old Dad puts it "Opinions are like armpits, everybody has them and soonor or later, they all stink."
Reading some of the arguments about which Asian women are better looking than others and which race of men finds which Asian women attractive is kind of laughable to me. However, here are my takes:
Connie Chung--old, has a wrinkly neck and looks like she walked into a sliding glass door too many times. YUCK!!!
Lisa Ling--looks like a poster girl for the WNBA or NTRA. Whiiiiinneeee!!!
Bai Ling--she's a woman? I thought she was a jar, given the way her ears look.
Michelle Yeoh--better looking than those listed previously, but I would never dare criticize a woman who could kick my @$$. She has very nice hair.
Lucy Liu--an average looking woman at best. She's more of a character Actress.
Sandra Oh--see above.
Joan Chen--much better looking than the first three by far.
Gong Li--exquisitely beautiful.
Kristin Kreuk--cute, with potential to grow up into a really classic beauty.
Maggie Cheung--Cute, but has played too many wacky roles for me to find her truly sexy.
Anita Mui--a classic Asian beauty by far.
Tia Carerre--One of the few Asian American actresses whom I find very, very attractive. She's physically fit and fiercly proud of her Filipina/Hawaiian heritage, but she has not been given the range of roles she deserves.
Ming-Na--Another attractive Asian American actress who has played a good broad range of roles.
Stacy Kamano--HOT! HOT! HOT!
Tamlyn Tomita--also a very beautiful woman who has opted for better roles than most, but has not been given high visibility because of this.
Now, I'm sure there will be some folks who agree with me, and some who want to crucify me. Which basically proves my point--one man's mead is another man's poison.
Hank Lewis
Monday, December 02, 2002 at 06:54:35 (PST)
[161.159.4.21]
[This whole Asian-female-beauty-standard digression has been fun but let's get back on topic. --Ed]
immigrant girl,
I once thought like that and still try my best holding to those ethics and ideals.
But, unfortunately, I have come across some Asian sisters (born here and immigrant) who really would not give the time of day for their own men.
You must understand that men have their "clocks" too. We got feelings too.
We shouldn't criticize the Asian brothers who are seeking mates from other races (whether consciously or sub-consciously).
it's complex
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 22:45:08 (PST)
[64.130.235.33]
Maggie CHeung is hooking up w/ Tony Leung. She dumped Olivier Assayas because of him. CHsrity CHung did the same to her white husband.
Just so you know
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 19:59:00 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
"I'm sure blacks would jump on the bandwagon" (in regards to surgery)
Pardon me oh ignorant one. But some BLACKS are fine with their facial features and physical traits...all the way down the hair follicle. Some are content with the way they look and feel, and are not insecure in the least. I am 1/2 black 1/2 mexican/iranian and believe me my dear..I am not running to the plastic surgeon to rid my luscious naturally curly hair or my full soft lips..and I can definitely afford it financially...and I also want to point out to you that my BLACK father who happens to be a high profile judge, can afford just about anything he'd like.
Also, I think its lame to say that Asians are the only ones that run to plastic surgeons. There are many people of various cultures that do this. Its good not to single out Asians or anyone else because that is not fair to do.
this way
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 14:31:29 (PST)
[152.163.188.65]
"You can reply if you like, but that's enough for me...for now."
Awwwww, little huu is taking a break. Can't say we'll miss you, since you never had anything worthwhile to contribute.
go away huu
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 13:21:28 (PST)
[207.172.11.148]
Yes, she broke it off, but they were engaged. Christy Chung, Seiko Matsuda, and Maggie Cheung are all highly regarded in Asia by Asians for their beauty.
But maggie cheung, christy chung had divorced their husbands and now they're all hooked up w/ chinese guys. I think the fact they married WM is pretty old news. As for michelle yoeh, as far as i remember, she hasn't married her chinese fiance, how could they be divorced?
Huu:
It's clear that you ran out of self-defense lately.
get some facts straight!
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 12:36:49 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
Sorry everybody... I don't mean to sound like that.
karzzzyworld
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 12:17:21 (PST)
[162.83.146.45]
Rob,
Great to see an open minded individual like you. Very admirable. I happen to be open minded myself.
kool
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 11:36:52 (PST)
[162.83.146.45]
immigrant girl,
Hey, Where you get all your information. From the air you breath? And let me ask you, so what do the white girls in either relationship with BM/AM/ LM, get in return? Do you know, and also list your sources.
DeMan
Sunday, December 01, 2002 at 11:13:35 (PST)
[162.83.146.45]
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