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IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:31 PM)

sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
     That's the perception of many AA men.
     On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
     Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
     Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?

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WHAT YOU SAY

[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
Azn Angel:

Three words make me think that Rob's story might have (like the toilet bowl of life) a "ring of truth":

Janet Chang Hawkins.
Hank Lewis
   Wednesday, December 11, 2002 at 05:48:21 (PST)    [161.159.4.35]
To: Born Again Chinese (BAC)

Amy Tan and authors like her must hate you for being the upstanding Asian man that you are. You failed to reinforce her Asian male characters. People might start to question her Supreme Authority on the Asian Culture. How dare you.
Repost
   Wednesday, December 11, 2002 at 03:52:54 (PST)    [66.92.1.200]
To: azn angel

“To begin with, Is the gender divide really as serious as people make it out to be? As for me, I think not.”

Some people live for The Gender Divide. You can see it here. Not too long ago, I was reading a non-Asian woman posting, trying to egg Huu76 on cutting down Asian women. Someone else beat me to the punch calling her on it.

The sad thing I see about the Gender Divide is that there are non-Asian vultures preying on us. But worse is that there are Asian puppets playing to their game. The Gender Divide is our problem in our community. But as with all problems, a problem for one is an opportunity for another. Take for example a car-accident victim and the ambulance-chaser. One guy gets hurt, the other guy gets rich – off of the guy that got hurt. And come on, the divorce lawyer wants a higher rate of divorce, the ambulance-chaser wants more people injured, Pfizer wants more men impotent, just like vultures who want a bigger Gender Divide.

By inducing hatred, these vultures prey on the Gender Divide. At least the non-Asians who are vultures do it with a self-serving motive. Asians who contribute to the Gender Divide don’t even realize they’re self-destructive, or do they?
Repost
   Wednesday, December 11, 2002 at 03:52:42 (PST)    [66.92.1.200]
Born Again Chinese (BAC)

I think that's great and all but I also think that two people of different cultures/upbringings can be very happy together and love each other totally. I am in a mixed relationship and I can love my significant other as much as I could someone of my own race/culture/ upbringing. As a matter of fact, it's nice and exciting that we can learn from each other's cultures. It can possibly add even more to a relationship I think. Sure you have something in common there but having some differences can be great too. Just don't assume 2 people of different backgrounds can't love totally.

To: No mo Joy Luck Club

You said "I know a lot of Asian mothers who tell their sons to go after white and Hispanic girls they are interested in." A couple of things about this. Every Asian person I know has said their parents are prejudiced when it comes to them dating. They want them to stay within their race if they're a guy and they want them to either stay within their race or date white if they're a girl. How can you say this accusation of Asian parents is false? Obviously I can't say ALL Asian parents are like this but it's certainly been 100% with my friends! I can't imagine that to just be peer coincidence. And also, were Blacks left out in your mom's assessment on purpose? I have found many Asians to be prejudiced towards blacks and whites but moreso even towards blacks when they aren't even the ones that have been as prejudiced against Asians. Which leads me to believe that they are only kissing up to whites to "get ahead" in this society, not because these people are overly good to them. If your mother is so liberal, would she be as accepting if your choice for a mate was black? If not, sorry, she's still prejudiced but just a little more specific in her racism, that's all.
Curious 1
   Wednesday, December 11, 2002 at 02:23:34 (PST)    [63.233.24.204]
I didn't mean you in particular but other people on this message board, as other people read this too and some I imagine may gladly pick out a mistake like that to accuse me of being racist etc. If I meant YOU IN PARTICULAR, I would have said "Also to Repost" on the top of my message, and not in the middle. By the way, I can assure you that I do not have the need to "crucify" anyone, except perhaps real criminals (though obviously that is not up to me and I am glad)... What I am doing here is simply standing up for what I believe, even though you may think it doesn't directly touches me. Actually, I could have been much more critical of you if I wanted to, but I think open and genuine discussion is better for comprehending each other's views and the discrepancies that may arise from misunderstandings in reading these views. IF there is a potential that the other person will be as receptive also.

>>Boy, this is relevant. Fine. Whatever. Maybe he’s bald. Maybe he’s Snow White. I don’t know. So shave the hair off and keep the "white skin."<<

No, I thought it is relevant. Because there really are white people with dark hair, there are some white people who have a little bit tanned skin and so on, so I don't understand why you picked out certain physical features as a reason that you think a non-white girl would date a whites man… so let's say Rob has dark eyes and black hair and is a little bit tanned, would the people here be more accepting of him then? Let's say he would resemble Asians but still be white (some people are like that), would you still be critical of him? Obviously, you don't even know what he looks like but you're immediately assuming that he is the blonde prototype. Sorry, to me that does sound kinda funny. You don't even admit the possibility that his girlfriend could like him for something other than physical features, maybe she likes him for his personality or so on. Those things are important to people too. The term "Snow White" was used as a metaphor - if you know the opening of the story.

>>Thank you for the gesture of spending your time writing to me despite your not feeling like it. Rest assured that this is as tiresome for me as it is for you.<<

That was my own contemplation and not really meant to say that I am being generous to you and that you have the responsibility to feel grateful, but if you want to feel that way that's fine with me. (Not that I need it.) And I am sorry that it makes you tired but such a wise man like you would understand that it takes effort to deal with these contradictory issues if one hopes to expand the mutual horizons of our knowledge, right? ;-)))

>>No, I majored in engineering,...<<

I never meant to imply that you're stupid or that you would have difficulty understanding. The reason why I said that last sentence was that when I took philosophy in college last year, it was somewhat difficult to comprehend some of the texts after only one reading (not the entire text, just a few sentences... I had to read them over again a few times before I could proceed). Now I am in university and it is not so bad, but I still thought that this might be confusing, as even this better text still has to be read over maybe once more... for me anyway. So I am naturally unsure over how others will receive it. And I didn't have the knowledge about your academic background or your present career, I didn't know how old you are... those are matters that could all play a factor in understanding these abstract concepts… in short, I am not a telepath. Actually, I though that you were much younger than your recent self-description would propose you to be, maybe like 23 years old... sorry, that was really the impression I got. Btw after reading your sarcastic comment in the previous point, I believe that you really can be a creative writer!

>>Would you, or could you, speak for then entire Asian culture as a whole? <<

No, obviously; since I am not Asian and I don't have all that much of a knowledge about Asian culture, though maybe I do about some few aspects of it. And I was not relating to "the ENTIRE Asian culture as a whole". I was discussing the practise imposed by some Asian conservative households IN RELATION TO THE AVAILABLE MARRIAGE CHOICES ALLOWED (sorry Ed, if I could highlight it any other way I would. You can't italicise it or post it in a different colour I assume...)

>>She is Asian, and will only date white men. So you call her open-minded, right? But if she were to only date Asian men, then she is not open-minded, by your standards, right?<<

No, I believe in the individual's right to choose in this matter. Which is precisely the point I was making in my previous post. Maybe I didn't state it correctly or clearly enough. I think it's perfectly natural that an Asian girl would want to date an Asian guy; all I'm saying is don't automatically assume that if a non-Asian girl/guy dates an Asian person, that they are some losers who can't get anyone of their own race and have to look for a submissive, status-seeking, materialistic, self-hating etc. person, on whom they can improve their "botched" self-esteem by putting their Asian partner down.

>>I am not "many people" – I am just Repost.<<

That was again just a contemplation of mine and I feel that I am allowed to write it. Other people sometimes divert from the strict thesis of their posts also… and again remember that other people read this too. I thought it better to put it into one post as opposed to putting each separate topic that I wanted to address under a new post. I couldn't have known that you will get so offended!

>>I don’t know why you are always expressing your frustration of what other writers have written – not what I’ve written – towards me, of all Asian men here.<<

Seriously? I wasn't aware of that... I didn't recall debating things with you before, I remember that a few months ago, when I was relatively new to this website, I was arguing (if you can call it that) like this with some other guy, but his name was Toy Sunner, not Repost…. If you find the particular discussion in which I was discussing something with you, please feel free to point me to it, or at least tell me what it was about, because I am seriously not aware of having been "expressing my frustration" over "other writers" with you before. And if so, it wasn't done with the intention to attack you personally.

>>Is it because I don’t call all Asian women sellouts?<<

No, not at all. Actually when you think about it more deeply, it's friendlier to the other side as well, because then you're not implying that if an Asian woman gets a white guy, that she is immediately "selling herself out" for more privileged status and more money etc; likewise, it is not implying that the white guy who is her boyfriend or husband got together with her only because he is a loser and because he wouldn't be able to get any white woman. It is more receptive towards the notion that they might have just gotten together because of other factors like personality and common hobbies and interests or because they simply are attracted to each other; and that I think is more open-minded towards these inter-racial relationships and towards in the end white people as a whole. (I don't mean that in the profiteering sense!) But like I said before, I am not aware of purposely picking out any fights with you, so I think your assumptions are wrong.

>>Or that I don’t spew garbage like telling my Asian brothers to desert Asian women for white women?<<

No, that's not it either. And I think that intelligent women wouldn't need that kind of lobbying from you or anyone else anyway... an intelligent woman can find an intelligent guy with whom she's hopefully going to have a happy relationship without having to put down or disadvantage other members of that guy's ethnic group. Vice versa.


>>Yes, this is The Gender Divide, but is hating Asian women and kissing up to white women the admission to this theatre?<<

Of course not... see comment above. Besides, I don't understand why you assume that I have a need for Asian guys to hate Asian women. Sorry, this comes to me as a surprise, because as far as I know I NEVER posted anything here on this entire website that would even suggest such a belief. Mind telling me on what basis did you derive this assumption about me from?

>>Will you give me the courtesy by supporting your accusation, point-by-point?<<

Sure. In his post from Friday, November 29, 2002, Rob stated: "I have many Asian guy friends, and none of them ever complain to me about the gender divide. Why not? Because they are very open minded. Most of them date Asian women, but even if they dated white girls, I wouldn't care. Why? Because I am open minded." In your response from Wednesday, December 04, 2002, you said: "Let me guess. If you see a white woman kissing an Asian/black/Hispanic/other non-white man on the street, what do you call her? Open-minded? Or do you call her white trash? You don't have to answer this one." You also said: "...are you saying that Asian women who do not date white men are not open-minded? That the only way you would consider an Asian woman to be open-minded is if they date white men?" Sorry, this interpretation to me seems flawed. Because he explicitly stated: "Most of them date Asian women" and he didn't seem (to me) to imply that this is wrong and that those Asian women should date white men. He also didn't seem to think that it is wrong if a white woman dates an Asian guy (by explicitly stating "even if they [Asian guys] dated white girls, I wouldn't care"). So, if he finds nothing wrong with one side dating the other, I don’t think that he would find anything wrong with that other side too... you understand?

So, that's about it. I hope you are better able to understand what I meant… though I think that if you'll come about with the same interpretations of my message as in your last post, it would be better to stop this discussion between me and you, as I can see it will lead to nowhere. Bye.
easter-european girl
   Tuesday, December 10, 2002 at 20:28:16 (PST)    [64.228.61.4]
I'm a college ABC female and have just read a lot of what's is being debated here. Some of the best explaination and insights I came across has been from few of the females here. Maybe because we all share and feel the same for one another. Women with limited dates or courtship will judge the few available men to them whether they're nice, give sense of security in life and family, and faithful. When the options are limited, race may not matter as much or need to be disreqarded.

On the issue of the story by Rob, I agreed with the females here, I found that Lisa is someone that's hard to believe or has behavior problems as others have explained. I don't even know or came across women of any color with such character. Even some so called 'sellouts' are really more human than the one described by Rob. Seems like racial profiling for his selfish motives.
ready for college finals
   Tuesday, December 10, 2002 at 20:08:18 (PST)    [130.212.18.215]
BAC,

having seriously dated both Asian and "other" you seem uniquely placed to answer the fundamental question of this board:

Are Asian guys under pressure to date Asian?

and if so are they under much more pressure than Asian females?

did you get that kind of pressure from your family or do you know if other guys do?

other random observations:

- Rob seems like a bit of a schmuck but he's probably OK underneath
- many worse WM have dated asian girls
- i never laughed so hard as when i read his description of "poor little Lisa" crying on his shoulder!!!...Rob you are trying to elicit some sympathy here right?
- at least he has nothing against Asian guys dating out and seems to at least know a couple of AM's
- if sell-outs are that bad why are AM so worried about losing them to the asian gene pool anyway?
- dating is a zero sum game.....Rob dates Asian mean a chance for an AM to date white
- if you believe in media stereotypes enough they will come true
- if i'm not happy with the lack of Asian representation in the western media i can just pick up a HK movie
- if i'm not happy with the quality of AF's in the west i can always check out asia
- does Connie Chung really hate being asian?....has she said so?....oh so she has a white hubby and doesn't speak out on asian issues = hates being asian....if you ask me she prolly loves being asian coz it got her where she is now.
- in all my years i've never met any hot single asian women who is gagging to date a decent well-to-do white guy.....but not for want of trying!
maxdacat
   Tuesday, December 10, 2002 at 18:10:52 (PST)    [129.223.37.13]
It may be because I'm in L.A where Asian couples are everywhere, but I don't see a gender divide.

I like it this way.
KA Guy
   Tuesday, December 10, 2002 at 16:52:05 (PST)    [208.48.177.5]
I also have read Rob's stories and wanted to argue against his racial stereotype assertions. But after reading what others have found as lies/holes/ contradiction in his stories, it's a moot point. Instead of making counterpoints now I could just said that it nice to know there are bright and intelligent ppl here who are not gullible and are able to dissect a made up fake story from a factual story. Yes there are some who were over-critical but they have a valid reason to be upset b/c this guy Rob who wanted to state his opinion and did it by bringing up a fictional story to prove his racial stereotypical assertions. Even he admited a lie, "(A lie, I'm only 5' 7'' 140 lb)" when he claimed Lisa only seeked WM for physical reasons. He would be more respected if he would had just said some IR couples just love each other. But he continued to make more lies that others were able to find as more BS lies. So these ppl have a right to defend what is a pervertion. At least there are ppl here who will attack a liar. And like Doubting Thomas said, this is the internet where mysterious ppl are just behind the computer screen and these are those who will turn a blind eye to Rob's lies for whatever secret agenda they have. Just as we now found out that Rob is a small guy and not the big physical guy we first thought from his post and fake story.
let's moveon w/o the liar
   Tuesday, December 10, 2002 at 10:37:29 (PST)    [206.170.20.135]
Tk Kang:

You say that Asian male are pressured to married within their own race from their parents. I don't agree with you on that. It is statement you say because you want to make an excuse for not dating or marrying outside your race. Do you look down that far on yourself. Are you that hopeless in attracting non-Asian female that you blame it on culture for pressuring you.

Although I do agree with you that Asian female have the freedom to wander off from their race. All women have freedom not just Asian women to choose their mate as they see fit. Women, in my opinion, have a keen sense on what they are looking for in a man. They were born with a sense to detect the right man for them that will care for them and their child. So if I am ever rejected by an Asian women over a white man I will live with it. The WM must have something special that I don't have like money, power, prestige, education, etc. I will not feel disappointed, afterall, she might not be the right match for me.

You are absolutely wrong for blaming it all on culture that Asian male are force to carry the bloodline so they have to marry their own. Culture have nothing to do with it. Are you saying that culture affect dating and marriage and ultimately love? That claim is not valid. Love is mutual attraction between a man and a woman. What does culture and tradition have to do with it can you explain that to me. I do believe that culture and tradition are something that is share by the two party to bring to love. It partly explains why AA date and marry each other. It is like a string that tied them together. But saying culture forcefully limit the choice you make on selecting a mate is false.

You are forgetting that there are AM and WF couples out there. If your theory hold true than the AM is violating his cultural principle and his parents would annul the marriage. His parents will not see their son as blood or flesh anymore. The parents, son, and daughter in law will not get along. On the contrary, I don't eliminate the fact that the parents will forgive their son and accept the non-Asian daughter law into the family. Parents who do that want a happy marriage and future for their son so they can go on with their lives. Parents who disown their son will only cause stress and hearthache for them so they will restrain from doing so. In the end, I think Asian parents will learn to live with the issue that their child have married outside their race.
don't speak for all AM
   Tuesday, December 10, 2002 at 09:55:30 (PST)    [128.227.238.183]
Born again, you sound like a very nice person and a great boyfriend, and I'm happy for you. But you do come across sounding very preachy. Why do you equate dating a white woman in the past as "selling out"? That "final piece of the puzzle" that was missing is only in your mind. So is the glass wall between you. These things do not exist in the real world, only in your and/or your partners' minds.

I can understand that an asian person might be able to understand another asian person better than a white person. But please don't look at asians that date outside of their race as "sellouts". For in my mind, there is no missing piece of a puzzle or glass wall between my boyfriend and me.
Bella (WF dating AM)
   Tuesday, December 10, 2002 at 09:41:13 (PST)    [207.183.118.60]

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