|
|
|
|
|
GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:26 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
CONTACT US
|
ADVERTISING INFO
© 1996-2013 Asian Media Group Inc
No part of the contents of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission.
|
|
|
|
WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
To: Ronbo, AC
Welcome back – nice to see the two of you again.
AC, as usual, I appreciate your no-frills logic. You’re right. I guess the “spread legs to white = open-minded” thing can also be an issue of semantics.
Ronbo – Thanks for sharing. Sorry about your sister. I hope she finds her happiness.
I’m just guessing here: my gut feel is that an Asian woman who writes she is looking for only Asian man or white man prefers a white man. A white woman who says she is looking for only Asian man or white man prefers an Asian man. The Asian woman uses the Asian man in the ad as a decoy, and the white woman uses the white man in the ad as a decoy. That way, they are protected from the abuse you mentioned. Again, just a guess.
Repost
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 02:31:52 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
To: huu76
“I'd like to see your reactions the day some guy sincerely asks "Why don't asian women prefer asian men?"”
Well, if that Asian guy were to be you, let’s see. Let me think for a minute. Why wouldn’t Asian women prefer you?
Repost
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 02:30:59 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
To: eastern-european girl
“I am not pulling "garbage" out of thin air”
You are correct. I am wrong. You caught me. I am so, so wrong. There is no air in space.
Ok, I admitted I’m wrong. Are you happy now?
“This here above was what was B.Lee's interepretation of Rob's comment and I took the opportunity to point out to him that I believe he was mistaken. “
So what did you point out? Did you fail to understand what B.Lee was writing?
“"are free only" it implies that there is a restriction placed, as in for example "Children are free to only drink juice, not alcohol".”
Which do you like better, apples or oranges? Can’t decide? How about if we put them side by side? Yes, we can compare apples and oranges.
Do you want a real test? Let’s put your hypothesis through a litmus test. This is the source of contention between us:
“Asian women are free to date only Asian men--I believe in a woman's right to choose--but I'm not sure if I would call that open minded.”
You claimed that the “are free” implies a condition: “The statement "are free" implies that a third party is present here - someone/something who will decide the boundaries of or impose restrictions on someone else's freedom. It can be parents, society, or just a person's traditional culture.” Monday, December 16, 2002 at 21:55:09 (PST)
So let’s put your claims of implications to the test, how’s that? When the rubber hits the road, will your tires stick or will they squeal? Let’s apply the implication explicitly into the sentence beginning with the first two sections:
“{Restricted by parents, society, or just their own culture,} Asian women are free to date only Asian men--I believe in a woman's right to choose--...”
First section now describes a restriction, and the second section describes a freedom. The second section contradicts the first, doesn’t it? To join two separate, opposing points, we need a coordinating conjunction {but} that signifies an opposing change:
“{Restricted by parents, society, or just their own culture,} Asian women are free to date only Asian men—{but} I believe in a woman's right to choose--...”
Now we add in the third section:
“{Restricted by parents, society, or just their own culture,} Asian women are free to date only Asian men—{but} I believe in a woman's right to choose-- but I'm not sure if I would call that open minded”
Ok, now we have a but...but situation. To join the third to the second, we need to replace the last coordinating conjunction {but} with a subordinating conjunction {because}:
“{Restricted by parents, society, or just their own culture,} Asian women are free to date only Asian men—{but} I believe in a woman's right to choose—{because} I'm not sure if I would call that open minded”
Now we really have a problem – the subordinating conjunction “that” in the third section now references what? The restriction by parents, society, their culture? The Asian woman’s choice of Asian men?
So with your implications, we’ve successfully butchered the original sentence: “Asian women are free to date only Asian men--I believe in a woman's right to choose--but I'm not sure if I would call that open minded.”
Into: “{Restricted by parents, society, or just their own culture,} Asian women are free to date only Asian men—{but} I believe in a woman's right to choose—{because} I'm not sure if I would call that open minded”
Congratulations. You’ve just proven that “A dog is walking with a cat” really means “A man is fighting with a woman.”
Repost
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 02:30:37 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
A-man,
"His girl Lisa has her preferences--she happens to prefer white boys--but it doesn't bother me"
Happens to prefer whites? I am not sure it really happens to prefer whites. I have yet to hear a different preference when Asian women choose to date outside of her race.
FOP
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 00:23:03 (PST)
[207.221.130.205]
Repost:
"please quote me where I wrote that I am against your girlfriend having her preference in white men."
You didn't explicitly say it, but it's quite clear from the fact that you're getting all worked up over the close/open minded debate, which, in my mind, is a trivial question. I, for one, don't see how you could get all worked up over just a few meaningless words.
Do you want me to say that Asian women who date Asian men are open minded? Fine, they're open minded. As I said before, it's a matter of opinion--it's not something that is going to change anything about this so-called gender divide. It's kind of like arguing over whether 5'8 is tall or short. Or arguing whether a Honda or a Toyota is a better looking car. You say one, I say the other. But it isn't something worth arguing over. If it makes you happy to say that Asian women who date Asian men are open minded, then I'll concede that point.
One point I will not concede is your attacks on Lisa. Your statement that I like her open mindedness because she opens her legs for me is sexist, chauvanistic, and, in the context of this discussion, racist. I know that you would never say that about a white woman. Why can't people like you treat AF as you would treat any other woman? Does being Asian give you the right to label her?
I think A-man is right--you owe me an apology.
Ronbo and T'K:
Thanks for your thoughtful notes. I think it would be great if either of you ended up with an AF, a WF, or a BF. I think interracial relationships are great.
Lisa has said that in general BM and AM don't turn her on physically. I know many AM who aren't turned on by WF or BF. I guess it's a matter of what desires God gave you. Do you think it's the media? I don't know. How could a bunch of TV shows or movies change a person's entire perception of beauty? This is a good question.
As for your comments, Ronbo, about ugly WM going out with AF, I'd probably have to (in all honesty) lump myself with those ugly guys. As I've mentioned, I'm only 5'7 and 140 lbs., small by American standards. All I can say though is that Lisa sees through my lack of physical beauty. Physically, Lisa is beautiful both outside and inside, yet she doesn't place so much emphasis on the outside. It's what is inside that matters most to her. True, she prefers WM, but she doesn't place much emphasis on looks. Which makes me think I'm a very lucky guy.
Rob
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 00:18:43 (PST)
[32.100.71.147]
AC,
What about the beauty AFs with the ugly ass white men?
Off topic,
Anyone seen that badly dubbed Head & Shoulders commercial? The one with with the asian looking girl with practically white skin? Anyway, the guys looks white. I'm assuming this is a commercial that originally aired in Asia somewhere. Can't really imagine a big enough market of white guys over there, maybe they're playing to the AF preferences? It plays on CityTV a lot. Eastern Euro-girl might know.
huu76
Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 21:54:45 (PST)
[65.95.193.102]
even thoug hhuu 76 likes to deny he doesn't give a hoot about AF, it seems clear af outmarrying seem to be a major sad issue in his entire life. Of course he will go to great lengths to deny it but it's clear he will carry bitterness upon his shoulders for the rest of his life. if not he woldn't have spent an enormous tiem here bashing AF. First he insists he doesn't give muhc thought about AF but then he sstill goes on bashing them and spread the word 'hate' cinsistently...how oxymoronic is that?
ALll he can come up w/ now is very weak argument. I truly feels sorry for him...
loser!
Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 18:35:08 (PST)
[203.162.120.115]
Polyglot,
"Lisa are conditioned differently and that people discriminate and have prejudices, like it or not."
And why are "sellouts," for lack of a better term, above examination. So non-sellout are not entitled to their opinions on the matter.
Not exactly what I call fair.
AC Dropout
Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 16:43:45 (PST)
[24.136.115.189]
The evidence keeps mounting that Rob's girlfriend, Lisa, is all a lie.
comments Rob made on December 17, 2002 at 22:08:26 (PST):
"I think you need to do some serious thinking about how you treat some Asian women." [in reference to Repost]
"and Huu who prefers WF"
If Rob so loves and cares for his AF girlfriend, why does he use huu to support his stance that we should be more "open-minded" toward AFs prefering WMs? It's so obvious that huu hates all AFs, specifically for being with WMs.
If he is so loving toward Lisa, Rob should have quick to defend her against huu's attacks of AFs. Dude, huu is the ultimate AF hater on this board (and perhaps the most hated), but Rob doesn't take any offense against huu's views.
B. Lee
Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 16:36:35 (PST)
[207.172.11.148]
I don't get why so many people are still talking about Rob's story. To me, it still sounds like a bunch made up crap. And there's no point at arguing on a fallacy. C'mon people, go back and read his posts.
ck
Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 16:07:50 (PST)
[196.40.43.218]
maxdacat:
"I just read a post i think was by you??"
Yes, I posted the message at another Asian website.
maxdacat:
"what was she doing on a date with you in the first place???"
I have no idea. I did not ask her why she went out with me, and I certainly will not ever speak to her again. I am just glad that I left her at the restaurant and did not pay for the meal because the restaurant was an expensive one.
By the way, she started dating Asian men last year. So I was not the first or only Asian man she had dated. However, she dated ONLY White men during her entire 10s and 20s, and she still preferred White men. Personally, I think she should NOT be dating Asian men at all. I also think any self-respecting Asian man should not get involved with her (therefore, I walked out.)
T'K Chang
t_k_chang@yahoo.com
Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 14:11:09 (PST)
[207.167.96.32]
To Rob:
In response to your comment: ". I could've come here, said that love is blind, and then celebrate how love made both me and Lisa race-blind. I know many white men who do this. But I chose not to."
I haven't done this either. My wife Julie and I are keenly aware of our ethincities. There's no way to avoid or escape our individual ethnicities, and there's no reason to do so either. Julie is proud of her Chinese ancestry and I am proud of my Scottish/Swedish ancestry. There are cultural elements of our heritages which we incorporate into our lives which enrich us. We love eachother and our relationship works irregardless of our ethnicities.
Our relationship isn't common. It's not based upon Julie perceiving "White is right" nor is it based upon her having a "White preference." It's not based upon me having a warped view of Asian women nor is it based upon thinking it's just supposed to work for AFs and WMs because of TV shows/Movies. However, for me to deny that such relationships exist because ours doesn't fit that description would be ignorant of me.
Julie actually only dated Asian men before she knew me and had never even given thought to dating White men one way or another. She just figured she'd probably meet, date and marry a Chinese-American man and that was that. She wasn't counting on meeting me.
I've always been open to dating women of all kinds of ethnicities and did so with impunity. It's not a matter of me being color blind, but rather it's a matter of me being able to see beauty in women of all ethnic groups and valuing qualities like education, character and intelligence more than valuing common skin color or culture. That doesn't make me super-open-minded though. I've got some narrow views when it comes to certain things I like or dislike and I tend to be more conservative than liberal when it comes to financial issues.
The main reason why it's been "easier" for me to date transethnically than other Caucasians is because I grew up in an integrated school with friends and colleagues of all ethnic groups whom I respected. I'm talking guys and girls here, Rob. Some of my better friends growing up were Asian American guys. The reason had to do with the fact that our fathers were well-educated, somewhat strict when it came to behavior and our studies and that we had common interests. Their fathers and my father were also colleagues at the Unversity where my dad was a professor, which also gave us a point of connection.
The thing that was offensive about your comments were that they seemed somewhat presumptuous about Asian guys and had implications about Asian women which were less than flattering. Maybe that wasn't what you intended, but that is how it came across.
I don't think the comment about your girlfriend being "open legged" was needed, and perhaps my "Janet Chang Hawkins" comments were over the top. However, your "open minded" comment and "free to date" comments came across as you, an outsider, trying to evaluate Asian American men and women as a whole in an almost superior or judgemental manner. It kind of rings of British Colonial Officials in Hong Kong prior to 1997 making sweeping declarations about the Chinese people who lived there--you were being authoritative in an area you had no business taking such a stance. Once again, you may not have meant to do so, but that's how it came across.
Think about it.
Hank Lewis
Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 11:03:35 (PST)
[161.159.4.20]
eastern-european girl,
The movie was call "Eat, Drink, Man, Woman" by director Ang Lee I think.
Not to be rude. But 5 years ago I saw the biographical movie of Nadia the romanian gymnast.
Does that make me an qualified expert on Eastern-european girls?
AC Dropout
Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 10:25:21 (PST)
[24.136.115.189]
NEWEST COMMENTS |
EARLIER COMMENTS
|