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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:25 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
I happen to be a secure AF that prefers WM. I have always been treated better by them in my college years and after graduating. Things were so bad I wound up changing my birthname, because I knew that is who I really was. Not the name my parents gave me, because I honestly just couldn't relate to it. Some people might not understand this but I don't really care. This is about me. I think WM are sexy and irresistable. No disrespect to AM, but they just don't understand this feeling. My dating WM is only a reflection of who I am on the inside as a woman. I only like cute blonde hair blue eyed types that dress nice. I never settle for less than that. During my highschool years I was a goth chick. Asians could not understand what I was going through. They were always picking at the way I dressed and my taste in music and my black lipstick with fingernails. The Whites were always more accepting. Alot of people mistake me for being a hapa anyway since I was born with light brown eyes and hair. I get mistaken for being that all the time. Well the point I am trying to make is this. So what if Rob's Lisa prefers WM. WM are wonderful and I couldn't see myself ever being with an AM ever. When I am in the company of an attractive looking WM it makes me feel complete and whole because I know that he understands who I really am. He understands what I am feeling. Its not the same with being with an AM. They don't understand what I have gone through and what its like to be an AF at this point and time in my life. They don't listen to my choice in music and very seldom do I see any who will treat a woman like a princess in a crystal palace. That is very rare to see. I am sure there may be some, but I won't be looking in their direction. Why? Because I am happy with WM. And I have hopes of having beautiful hapa babies someday and I will teach them that color is not an issue and for them not to be narrow minded and uniformed. I give a thumbs up to Rob and Lisa and I wish them the very best. I wish everyone would get off their backs. Obviously there are many jealous people that just enjoy picking other people apart.
Sharon
Sunday, December 22, 2002 at 07:50:09 (PST)
[209.214.170.36]
I truly feel that this gender divide should be discussed by ASIANS only. We are the only ones who have the most insight about it, and havent we had enough outside opinions and assumptions on us throughout our lives?
lets talk
Sunday, December 22, 2002 at 07:44:26 (PST)
[218.187.87.4]
To: Hank
I didn't really understand your allusion to Janet Chang Hawkins the first time you wrote it. The only times I've seen her write was during the Matt Richardson era, and she didn't come across as hating Asian men. Maybe I’m wrong?
Interesting you mentioned the British rule over Hong Kong. Residents of Hong Kong were not citizens of any country. They were called British subjects. But you probably already know that from your wife. While I despise the communists for atrocities they committed to families like my father's, I must admit that deep inside, I felt vindication on the day of handover in 1997. Some may say that China went overboard in rolling tanks to the border immediately before the handover. Others see it as China's way of slapping the British back in the face right in front of the whole world by the show of military superiority over England.
Repost
Saturday, December 21, 2002 at 16:32:24 (PST)
[63.187.9.59]
To: Rob
I can’t believe I’m reading this.
“I know that you would never say that about a white woman. Why can't people like you treat AF as you would treat any other woman?”
You're doing it again. Just a few days ago, you spent an entire message trying to demonize me as "an Asian man who has a problem with your girlfriend's preference in white men." And I called you on it, remember? Now you're making the accusations that I 1) preferentially treat white women better than Asain women and 2) I don't treat Asian women like any other women. Well, then, quote me where I 1) preferentially treat white women better than Asain women and 2) I don't treat Asian women as I would other women. Fine. If you want to beg me to call your bluff again, here it is. Frankly, watching you fall flat on your face is losing its novelty.
"I, for one, don't see how you could get all worked up over just a few meaningless words."
Let's see. Is your mother an Asian woman who has never and will never consider any man unless he is Asian? No? Well, my mother is. Women like my mother - and the mothers, sisters, daughters, wives, and girlfriends of many readers here in this forum - meaningless? How much farther will you go in trivializing Asians?
"One point I will not concede is your attacks on Lisa."
Rob, there was one and only one person I dedicated my posts to. Can you guess who he is? Hint: he likes to hide behind his girlfriend's skirt.
"I think A-man is right--you owe me an apology."
Wait, so now I owe you an apology? I thought all this time you were crying that it was your girlfriend that I insulted. So this was really all about you and your feelings after all, isn't it?
Repost
Saturday, December 21, 2002 at 16:29:38 (PST)
[63.187.9.59]
Repost,
I wouldn't be the one asking that question (I already know what the answer is). How would you answer if a Russian guy you've never met before asked you that question, hmmm?
Loser!,
Nice tag. Self portrait of sorts? Try reading more posts before you hop on the "AF's-doormat" bandwagon. AF outmarriage at normal levels is alright because it's on par with other groups, at current levels it is disgusting. It cheapens your image and you still support it. Sad, so, so sad.
huu76
Saturday, December 21, 2002 at 06:22:31 (PST)
[207.164.88.163]
Leave Huu 76 alone! You guys are so damn bad!!
Well a good number of people are now negatively disposed towards huu 76. My 2 cents is just leave him and his BS alone….don’t waste anytime w/ this guy cos if you want to do that you probably will do it for eternity….since this issue will be there w/ him until he dies.
Probably his intention is to tick you guys off w/ all this AF bashing BS . He knows he is losing but he is bitter so he has no other way to go other than get all the winners worked up ….my friends ….don’t waste your time w/ him cos it’s not worth it…just deal w/ it…he will be here for long. Or he needs an emotional outlet cos the pain baggage he is carrying is too heavy for him to suffer which is why he never ceases to go to the board venting out like snowball at AF. Show some sympathy for your brother people…Just leave him alone….He is here to expect a place where he can throw a bit of psychological baggage that is too much to carry… He’s too angry, too painful, too bitter w/ the AF issue to receive any more rejection and despise from you guys here… Please feel sorry for your bro like you do some one who ia physically handicapped. I say plz…leave him alone….let him rant here cos if you don’t he will lose a place where he can throw a bit of his overheavy mental issues…his emotional outlet would be cut down...it would be cruel! Yeah you can ignore his posts but let him keep ranting. Show some sympathy, my friends!
Leave huu 76 alone!
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 21:34:04 (PST)
[203.162.121.147]
Rob:
Read my post below. I exposed your ridiculously low-tactic lies. Everybody here need no further proof to confirm their doubts that the story is made up. And don’t explain anything. I don’t see any explanaton or justification on your part that can help your situation or counter the blatant truth that YOU LIE, no matter how valid /legit it sounds . No matter how much you try to explain or correct things you said, the mask has already been unveiled. Nothing will help. Like Repost did before, I call your bluff right here, right now, right infront of everybody…actually I quite enjoy it.
Don't explain anything cos everybody knew it...if they don't they will soon. Now you should be ashamed of yourself instead trying to save your pathetic face by fabricating more lame BS.
Rob is pathetic!
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 21:05:18 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
Hank:
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.
I want to clarify one thing: Lisa is also very proud of her Chinese heritage. She makes it a point to take me to all kinds of cultural festivites and celebrations, and she even makes me learn Chinese words. I myself am proud of my Irish-German-Jewish roots. If we ever have kids (well, if we ever marry), I will be sure to raise them knowing both their cultures. Best of East and West, as Lisa likes to say. Many of my best friends are also Asian American guys. I think you and I are very similar.
Now Hank, there are only two points I'd like to touch upon briefly. I am not very politically correct (not a typical liberal--a bit conservative, like you), so please excuse my forwardness.
First, we have the question of authority. Why can't we white men state our opinions without being looked upon as "outsiders" who are similar to the British rulers of Hong Kong? I am white, but I'm not an outsider. I have had three Asian girlfriends, so what affects them affects me. Even though I am white, my way of thinking (probably like yours) is very Asian. "White" is only my exterior. Plus, there is the question of authority--I have dated Asian women, and so I know a thing or two about Asian people and their culture. In fact, there is an Asian guy at work to whom I sometimes give love advice. If he views me as patronizing or condescending, he certainly hasn't told me so.
Second is the question of the preferences of Julie and Lisa. Let me begin with a question: Which race does Julie prefer? White or Asian? The politically correct answer is either "Asian" or "love is colorblind", but what is the real answer?
Let me tell you the story of my second girlfriend Annie. I met Annie, a Chinese American woman, right after college. Annie, unlike Lisa, was a really militant Asian pride type of woman. She was involved in student activism, and had been president of the Asian American political group in college. She would bust me for every little faux pas I made, and she would constantly talk about bringing down the "white power structure." At first I was a bit uncomfortable around her, but as we became closer and closer, I realized that she was a really kind person deep down. Anyway, Annie, like Julie, only dated Asian guys before me. In fact, she made a point to tell everyone that she only used to date Asian guys. It was as if she were somehow ashamed to be seen with a white man. Which was really strange, since she told me that she wanted to move in with me.
On the other hand, I always caught her stealing glances at other men. We would be sitting in a restaurant, when her eyes would just leave me and start trailing another man who was walking by. I also noticed that she always seemed to stare at white men. Once, I asked her jokingly if she preferred WM even though she dated Asian. Annie responded by getting really angry and telling me that my comment was racist and white supremacist. At the same time, she couldn't keep her eyes off of other white men.
My point? My point is that not everyone is honest with their true feelings. It is my belief that Annie always preferred WM, but society forced her to keep her preference silent. Last I heard, Annie married some white guy that she met at work--though she's still active in Asian empowerment. I'm not saying that Julie prefers WM; I'm just saying that you can't always go by what people say.
We WM in these interracial relationships need to do some serious soul searching. I think it is the nature of our relationships.
Rob
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 19:27:44 (PST)
[32.100.71.242]
"Do you think it's the media? I don't know. How could a bunch of TV shows or movies change a person's entire perception of beauty? This is a good question."
“…WM are not necessarily superior to AM”.-Rob
So Wm are not ‘necessarily’ superior to AM, but in general they are…That’s what you implied, right? Hank Lewis is right...your tone is quite presumpuous and jugemental about AF and AM
now your lies have been exposed to light:
"You asked me if Lisa would prefer an ugly white man to an "attractive" (I put it in quotes because Lisa isn't attracted to AM--though other AF are) Asian man. You then asked if she would date a guy who looked like Newt Gingrich over Rick Yune. My answer is that she would wait for an attractive WM. "
"
she just prefers WM, good looking WM"
[December 05]
[She knows that she is beautiful, which is why some people get angry when they see a beautiful couple like us together " [November 29]
" yersterrday you wrote:
", I'd probably have to (in all honesty) lump myself with those ugly guys. "
"she doesn't place much emphasis on looks. Which makes me think I'm a very lucky guy. "
L"isa sees through my lack of physical beauty"
B. Lee is right….if you truly care about your ‘Lisa’ you would readily be up in arms defending her agaisnt men like huu 76. But since anytime there is a lie, ther will always be flaws and absurdity in the made up story.
I bet you are one Wm who is very insecure and probably intimidated by AM or any quality men. Perhaps your implicit message to AM is" the best of your women kiss up to the lesser of us WM.Yet you don't know anything about AF or AM, to say the least. you surely has been very offended when so many people notice the beautiful AF love AM and leave the lesser to white dudes.
Yet you try to sound like a nice guy otherwose what you said would not be taken seriously.
Huu 76: you’re losing. You fail to adress posts that expose the truth about you and your personnality… you are unable to answer them….all you are able to do now is keep bringiung up the same issue. Which is a low tactic.
Rob is truly pathetic!
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 17:31:19 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
Repost:
>> please be man enough to retract your accusation with the same alacrity
Take it easy, man. There's no need to challenge my manhood or to take anything personally. I was stating my opinion (which, evidently, many people on this board agree with) that you were overly harsh on Rob, judgemental with regards to his girlfriend, and that perhaps a word of apology is appropriate. If you don't want to apologize, don't. I just hate to see men make remarks about other men's girlfriends like that. I also hate to see a man attack a woman (eastern european girl). But like I said, if you don't want to apologize, don't.
Everyone else:
Now I think there are certain issues here that are worth debating. Hank and Rob are two white men who seem to have differing views on IR dating. I'm not so bothered by IR, but I was intrigued by Rob mostly because his perspective is more similar to mine. Like Ronbo, I have AF relatives who verbally tell me they only date WM. Lisa evidently said the same thing to Rob. While it would be nice to say that many AF are open minded in dating AM, the truth is that many only date WM.
I'm glad Hank has also acknowledged that other AF/WM couples are in fact based on "White is Right." I'm looking to hear more from both him and Rob.
A-Man
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 16:40:11 (PST)
[64.166.145.2]
Rob: lies again....earlier on, you said Lisa would wait for goodlooking guy to hook up...you even mentioned you are good looking and now you said the opposite...
ppl stop it now don't take this BS seriously anymore...this dude may be laughing at the gulliblilty of those who take the story literally!
the picture is clear now
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 14:30:33 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
Rob : yeah...you're a very lucky guy...she doesn't place emphasis on look, yet she places premium on race...which consolidates the point she loves u mainly for your race. How could u be any luckier??? The cons is her race-based limited preference whittle away a great deal of chances for her to get any quality man....it's so sad...i'm feel like i'm crying for her...
i fel sorry for Lisa
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 14:23:45 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
To quote Rob "True, she prefers WM, but she doesn't place much emphasis on looks. Which makes me think I'm a very lucky guy. "
So which side of the fence are you on Rob? Does your whiteness count or not?
You seem to be trying to cover all bases by saying she prefers white yet looks don't matter.????
Polyglot
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 12:47:47 (PST)
[203.29.131.4]
Repost:
Look, I am tired of this linguistic dissemination. I've said what I've said, it is correct, and I'm not going to bother to prove it to you again. There is only so much you can do to explain something... if the opposing person will completely and purposefully disregard what one said (like you do), well there is no use "discussing" something with them. Because constructive discussion involves an effort in understanding other person's claims, and also discussing relevant claims.... do you get that Repost. And like I said, you do not try to understand. Instead you start writing some irrelevant and totally unrelated crap, just like when I asked you on Dec. 10 (at 20:28:16) to tell me WHERE exactly was I ever "expresssing my frustration with you over what others have written"
(Repost: "I don’t know why you are always expressing your frustration of what other writers have written – not what I’ve written – towards me, of all Asian men here." - Dec.10 at 00:32:09),
and WHERE did I ever post anything on this website that would suggest I have a need for AM to hate AW
(Repost: "Or that I don’t spew garbage like telling my Asian brothers to desert Asian women for white women?" - Dec. 10 2002 at 00:32:09)
and you replied something totally unrelevant about how I write with caps and exclamation marks. You asked "Will you give me the courtesy by supporting your accusation, point-by-point?" (Dec. 10 at 00:32:09) and I did. Now, will you be kind enough to do the same? Because, you know, I don't take such accusations very lightly. Just because you're Asian and I'm White and European, that doesn't mean that you can just make up lies about me and then think: "Oh it’s okay, she's just a white girl, she doesn't need to have any proof against her if someone accuses her, who cares". If you make an accusation against someone, you must first of all have some kind of proof, don't you? So - one more time - please be kind enough to show it to me. I don't care about your discussion about Rob and his posts - have your truth since you so adamantly close your eyes to what is unsuitable for you - but, please be kind to TELL ME where I ever discussed anything with you and expressed my frustration with you prior to December 4. That's what this discussion of ours started with, didn't it? I didn't originally mean for it to turn into this. And that's the last thing that I ask of you, ok? Let's leave sentences and linguistics out of this. Just tell me what I am asking.
eastern-european girl
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 11:14:48 (PST)
[216.209.97.116]
"If it makes you happy to say that Asian women who date Asian men are open minded, then I'll concede that point."
Which means that Lisa is not open minded b/c she does not date Asian men?
How about this: A person who racially discriminates in dating is closed minded. A person who does not racially discriminate in dating is open minded.
An AF who only dates WM is racially discriminating against AM, BM, and LMs.
Likewise an AF who only dates AF is racially discriminating against WM, BM and LM. Neither is particularly open minded.
Allenby
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 11:03:37 (PST)
[132.200.32.32]
Repost,
"'spread legs to white = open-minded' thing can also be an issue of semantics"
That more of an issue that people confuse 'relative' values with 'absolute' values.
One reason I hated language classes. There are no absolute values for adjective.
But in Rob's case it is obvious his point was.
'spread legs to me = open minded'
Whether he implied 'me = white race (gods gift to the earth)' is a whole other issue. But we can give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
I believe 'open minded' should have an absolute value, so to prevent confusion in the future. Case in point.
"While dangling from a rope with a shaven hamster in her anus, she willing spread her legs to me regardless of my race = open minded"
That should make it easier to distinguish the shades greys.
AC Dropout
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 10:32:04 (PST)
[24.136.115.189]
huu76,
"What about the beauty AFs with the ugly ass white men?"
You and I are on diffent planets. The "Shallow Hal" movie reference was to address the fact that beauty is a relative value.
AC Dropout
Friday, December 20, 2002 at 10:01:46 (PST)
[24.136.115.189]
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