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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:22 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
Repost, appreciate the brutally honest story, you had made some comments earlier about this relationship but had never given many details. Hopefully you're a stronger and wiser man for having dealt with this relationship.
Interesting feedback from both Rob and Sharon. Don't necessarily agree with either of you two entirely but I certainly respect your rights to feel the way you do. Hank, I think about a month ago we discussed the AA Gender Divide and my question to you is, with what you have seen and read on this message board, has your initial impression changed? I try to maintain an open discussion, not to say I can't be critical but we've gone a bit deeper than ever before with regards to this topic. Nothing I've seen posted on this board surprised me, it's actually refreshing to see some of these thoughts exposed.
But let me throw out some more possibilities and numbers out there. The AA population in the US is about 3% while the White population is about 75%, so we're looking at a 25 to 1 ratio. In California and some other heavily Asian areas, you may get up to 25% AA but that's about it. Imagine an AF who's not getting much attention from the AM's around her for whatever reason. Let's take a group of WM's, the same WM's that I describe as being a bit awkward and not particularly successful with WF's. They ask out some AF and she is tickled to death that not only is she getting male attention, she's getting it from a WM. Someone who has crossed the ethnic/racial lines and is showering her with attention. I've said before that I've known men who specifically chase after AF's and they are all genuinely nice guys. Not necessarily interesting or good looking men, but good guys, so naturally they treat their AF's well. These WM's are just happy to be getting female attention and the AF is finally getting the attention that she feels she deserves, a win-win situation on both sides. And admittedly, they will have some hurdles to deal with as an intra-racial couple, from the families and AM's who may find their relationship threatening. Given the 25-1 ratio, there only needs to be a small percentage of WM's who fall into the category of chasing after AF's so that EVERY AF in the US could have a WM that specifically, is interested in her for her ethnicity, long black hair, slim body, etc...
I will also maintain that a truly attractive AF has enough security and understanding in her looks and personality that she can attract any man of any race. The AF's that are not in the same category, who are being showered attention by WM's, will start coming up with the stereotypes that validate her relationship: AM's are not good-looking, they're passive, they're boring. WM's are better, more aggressive, sexier or what have you. These are the very same stereotypes that are propagated by white America and while I can vaguely accept it from that side of the world, I find it quite offensive if AF's need to follow that same path to secure their place in this country. AF's and AM's come from the same parents, same family, same culture, same upbringing. I guarantee you that any criticism that can be laid at the feet of AM's by AF's can be turned around. I've had WF's hit on me, grab my butt and flirt aggressively. I would be astounded if an AF ever did that to me...
Now's let's go to the flip side. I understand that any intra-racial has it's difficulties and hurdles whether it's AF-WM or WF-AM. Many WM's have mentioned getting nasty looks from Asians as an intra-racial couple. And my thought is, at least AF-WM couples are mostly accepted in this country, imagine the conditions for a WF-AM couple. AM's are barely acknowledged in US mass media and WF-AM couples?! I think I saw one episode of Just Shoot Me where some promiscuous blonde gal was making out with an AM. I nearly fell out of my chair! AF's may complain about their representation in the US media but at least you are represented. AF's may be seen as demanding, sexy Asian dolls but AM's, if you could be seen by the bulk of the US population as demanding and sexy, how would you feel? Hell, I would be all for it, it could only help me when it comes to dating! And why is television/media important? Hank describes a world at the university where there are all these great intra-racial relationships and he's a lucky man to exist in that world. The reality is that something like 35% of the US population has even a BA or BS. The majority of the population, maybe has a high school education and these people, are easily swayed but what they see in the media. And if the US media does not affect\reinforce behaviour, it is at the minimum, representative of existing behaviour and from what I see, AM's are an after-thought and WF-AM relationships are not desired. Imagine the flak that the couple has to take when they have to exist in an environment that has a group 20 or 25 times as large as the Asian population and does not take kindly to this particular WF-AM relationship.
So it's my belief that most WF-AM relationships exist because you have a very aggressive and accomplished AM who is willing to stand up to any negativity and negative stereotypes the society around him may throw in his path. The WF will need to be just as committed, because she too will be subject to these same pressures and their relationship must be able to withstand all of the above. I have no doubt that AF-WM relationships have difficulties but I will maintain that WF-AM relationships are under far greater scrutiny and pressure because they are just not nearly as accepted. And I think it's this overall acceptance of AF-WM relationships as compared to WF-AM relationships in conjunction with negative AM stereotypes that cause an AA gender divide.
And Sharon, understand that not all Hapa babies are cute. They may be more white but they will not automatically be cute. My ex-girlfriend's Italian father once said to me, "You two are going to have beautiful children because you're both good looking..." Note the good looking part of the comment... And also your interpretation of open-minded is far different from mine, dating just whites is NOT open-minded, get a clue...
Ronbo (Bay Area)
howudoinsf@hotmail.com
Friday, December 27, 2002 at 10:48:46 (PST)
[4.20.98.115]
Sharon,
You don't like anything asian, including your own birth name so that's why you chose to change it, because inside you're a white woman. So let me ask you; don't you feel ashamed when you're seen walking in the streets with your parents? I mean they must look like chinks, right?
ck
Friday, December 27, 2002 at 06:30:47 (PST)
[196.40.43.218]
eastern-european girl:
If you wanna see my baby's picture with me you can go to my website and look at the photo albums...hope you enjoy it..and yes, the girl in the main page with black hair is me... :)
http://photo.taipeilink.net/hong_ling
Mia
Friday, December 27, 2002 at 05:29:22 (PST)
[218.229.233.144]
I'm sorry Sharon, but you are also a racist. If you refuse to date your own kind, then you are also closed minded. If you like everything white, and dislike anything Asian, then you are close minded. What's worse than a racists? Someone who is a racist against their own kind. I'm only against the Asian women AND men who only date white. If you're not open to dating your own kind, then you're a tragic victim to the Big Ameicana Brainwash.
I too used to be in the goth/industrial scene(actually I was a rivethead). What separated me from most Asians in the scene, was that I had an Asian GF. That is the quickest way to not fit in. When you do a white thing - such as the goth/industrial scene, you feel you won't belong unless you go all white. Most asian chicks there are just fetishes for the white goth dudes. If it weren't for my like of the music, I would of bailed on the whole thing.
It was pitiful, seeing asian goth girls running around like little trophies.
Sorry, but if you could have seen the stares the white chicks and guys would give girls like you when you weren't looking. It's the truth.
Perhaps, by now, we have completely turned sharon away from her asian identity. Who cares, go marry some white guy and have your mixed babies. I know you probably think mixed babies are the cutest babies on this earth. Go make a few will ya.
As for Asian Guys that only date white. You’re just as bad.
bardarse
Friday, December 27, 2002 at 04:17:40 (PST)
[64.203.7.5]
Sharon:
As Latino Female married with AM and even with a child who's gonna look like them, I'm very happy with what I've got in this world, I've been through the worst and I've recovered from it too. I don't know how I got to be with Asian people but certainly I love it. I bless the day I met my first one becuz IT WAS MY REALLY FIRST ONE, if you know what I MEAN...
As for you I'm not against your wishes, although I bet you must be a very beautiful ASIAN girl with many atributes and features any man would love to see and feel.
RACE is not important or COLOR as long as you are happy and confident.
I wish I was ASIAN when I born!!!!!!
But for my own surprise and with all the things that happend in my life to this point, man, I'm entirely greatful of WHO I AM!!!!! It seems my personality attracts good odds. It's like my husband says: 'A fine honeycomb with sweet honey inside'
I wonder what that means in his culture...???? :)
oh well Asian men will always keep their misterious ways with everybody.
That's what I love from them! It's not some fetish like some weird people but PURE GENUINE LOVE FOR THEM!!!!!!!!!
Sharon, just be yourself!!!!! I hope you the best, dear...
Mia
Friday, December 27, 2002 at 03:18:00 (PST)
[218.229.233.144]
eastern european girl:
Thanks for your message full of support! :) I will tell my beloved daughter that her real dad was from Taiwan eventually when she gets more age to understand this kind of things. As for my Japanese husband who I love very much, he really support me in everything even though sometimes I find myself reading old love letters and looking at pictures of him, I confess that in my dreams we are still together deeply, truly and madly in love with each other as it was before he died. what I'm trying to say here is that I will never forget the father of my child and how much I loved him...maybe he feels ok that I found someone(my husband)who can protect me and his child. Just hoping he's not angry at the fact that my hubby is from Japan and not Chinese like him.
My friend's thinking about me is that at this point I still need to accept that he's not here anymore,and they're certainly right.
But who wants to forget first love if it was so purely genuine and true?
I won't and I will never forget him.
I got his kid, for my own sake!
AC Dropout:
Yes, J-Lo is Newyorican, that's right, and becuz I am Puertorican I know she have been in PR few times. I assure you that, even some member of her family still living back there.
I left PR long time ago, I have my house in Atlanta but I'm currently in Japan visiting my husband's family.
Hope you have great X-mas and Happy New Year to Everyone in this forum!!! :)
Mia
Friday, December 27, 2002 at 03:02:59 (PST)
[218.229.233.144]
In the short time I've been skimming through Goldsea posts, this one has to have been the most controversial and the most interesting. I'm not sure if I can say anything that hasn't already been said, but I'd like to share my thoughts. My dating experiences have been right down the middle--half of them have been Asian, half of them have been white. I won't go into detail on why they didn't work out, but none of them were because of any racial or cultural issues. Just the wrong time and the wrong place in a nutshell. I find that if you simply be yourself, you might be amazed in most situations just how willing some people are in wanting to get to know you. There will always be some who have certain preferences, but I think people are alot more liberal than this message board is making them out to be. There's over 5 billion people on this planet. If one is a snob or a jerk, I can guarantee you that there's at least 10 others out there that are far more worthy to spend your time with. It's useless trying to break down the reasons why this person likes that person, etc etc. It's an inexact science and it's pointless to try and analyze something that just isn't that important! Who cares who goes out with who? Just make yourself accessible and people of all races will open up and you'll find your prince or princess some day.
As for this gender divide, I do see more AF with WM than the other way around, but that's because I rarely see any AM around here anywhere. And the ones I do see are usually with AF, or occasionally a WF. I think if there were more AM then the ratio might be evened up. There was this one guy I knew that was half Japanese and half Italian. Maybe that doesn't qualify because he's a hapa, but he flaunted his Japanese side a great deal(in fact he took his mother's maiden name as his last name)so people knew of his background and loved him for it. The girls were all over him as well! But as another example, there was one full Vietnamese and one full Korean guy in my high school and they were both very popular. No one really made note that they weren't white(they were also both very social and athletic). But including me, out of a class of over 500, we were the only full Asian males, and there were at least twice as many females. Lots of hapas tho on both sides. I'm not sure if families are adopting more Asian females or what it is, but I just don't see very many guys to go around. Must be an exclusive club! :)
Hey, maybe I haven't seen enough of the world yet and my happy-go-lucky attitude on life really clouds my view on things, but if this Asian stereotype really bothers anyone out there, my advice is to use the old saying, "Speak softly but carry a big stick". Nothing's more dangerous then a nice person that's got a heck of a work ethic and skills to take on the best of them. If people hate you, show them up! You can maintain your Asian identity but you have to prepare for the worst, and bursting out like a madman won't solve anything. John Wooden once said, "Without proper conditioning in all areas, you will fall short of your potential." So true! Everyone lacks something but that's why God gave you other abilities to make up for it. Find what you do best and don't worry about what others say. Do your own thing and people will respect you.
HurricaneSteve
Friday, December 27, 2002 at 02:59:00 (PST)
[68.13.112.13]
To: AsianHollywood
Sorry, that was meant as a joke. So what are you waiting for? Go and knock 'em dead! ;)
Repost
Thursday, December 26, 2002 at 23:52:46 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
To: Sharon is pathetic
“Repost, could you kiss MLK's ass any more??”
Mind you, I just got started. With such a nice ass on her, which guy could resist? She is so fine I’d kiss her anywhere she wants to be kissed.
Say something nice about a woman, I’m kissing her ass. Say something not nice – or not even saying anything at all – about a woman, I’m misogynistic. I can never win.
Repost
Thursday, December 26, 2002 at 23:52:20 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
To: AC
“She is just playing with us. Ignore her. So there is no need to get jealous.”
Dude, life is unfair. I get criticized for kissing her ass, but you’re the one she professes her love to.
“look at his response to my post.”
Yes, just socially gauche. I’m beginning to feel I have too high an expectation in some people.
Repost
Thursday, December 26, 2002 at 23:51:53 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
To: Mia
My mother was a Christian before. After my father died without a faith when I was very young and some relatives had some weird dreams of my father. My mother talked to her pastor about that, and her pastor told her my father went to Hell. She cried and cried and all he said was it’s too late, her late-husband went to Hell. Life was tough. But in retrospect, I know why that happened.
Sometimes it doesn’t seem like life deals you hand of cards fairly. The best you can do is to make the best choices you have in presented to you. Best wishes.
Repost
Thursday, December 26, 2002 at 23:51:18 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
To: Sharon
“Of course an AM will be so quick to say that an AF is not beautiful, intelligent and open minded for dating WM. Because I may have different views that does not make me unattractive, stupid and stuck! If AM would...” [noise filtered]
I get it. Are you jealous of MLK?
I called MLK beautiful because she is. I know what she looks like. Now if you’d post your picture somewhere, we can get back to you on this.
I called MLK intelligent because she is. Go ahead and read her writing. We can’t tell from your writing whether you’re intelligent or not; you haven’t posted here for more than a week. We can get back to you on this as well.
And I don’t know how you came up with the antonym of “stuck” for “open-minded.” I kept highlighting “open-minded” and right-clicking on it, but Microsoft Word doesn’t come up with anything close as an antonym. I must call up Microsoft Premier Support and open up a Sev-A incident.
I guess an intelligent person is not necessarily articulate, and since MLK has so consistently articulated intelligently, I must have inadvertently left out “articulate” as one of my descriptions of MLK. Also, did I forget to mention that MLK is also very well educated?
So to correct myself – as I’ve admitted to erring before – I should have written: “...beautiful, intelligent, educated, articulate, and open-minded women like MLK.”
I’ve never said you are or are not beautiful, intelligent, educated, articulate, and open-minded. I don’t even know you. That’s akin to:
“Do you like escargot?”
“I love it! Escargot is my favorite!”
“Have you tried it?”
“No.”
And I don’t know why you’re flying off the handle with me. All I wanted to do was to thank you. I’m going to repeat this: thank you for knowing what you want and what you don’t want and being honest about it. I mean it from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And as if you haven’t realized yet, I’m trying to tell my Asian Brothers here to thank you as well. A “you’re welcome” is not obligatory if you don’t feel like it.
Repost
Thursday, December 26, 2002 at 23:50:36 (PST)
[66.92.1.200]
Azn Angel and MLK:
I have a question for you two as Asian women. I haven't yet responded/questioned any Asian women on this board, but I've found that I've had a few AF (or people who claim to be AF) that have been hostile. It's kind of ironic, especially since I'm defending AF's ability to CHOOSE. Of course I'm not saying you should prefer WM; I'm just saying you AF should be allowed to choose without suffering at the hands of society. Why this hostility against one of your allies? From an AF point of view, doesn't it make sense that you should at least have the choice of dating whomever you want?
T'K:
Tia looks pretty Asian to me. She's been in A Magazine and in other Asian publications, and she's played Asian roles in movies. When I see Tia, I don't see a hapa, I see a beautiful woman who looks Asian.
Repost:
"And once we react with any hostility, they’ll cast us as “disturbed Asian men who are jealous of the Asian women/non-Asian men relationship” or something vile in that nature. To camouflage their trap, they’ll tell you some good-sounding reasons, but underneath, they hide their true, insidious intent."
It was nice to finally hear something about your experiences. I can see that you've been hurt by Jennifer, and I don't blame you for being angry. I now understand a bit more about your feelings towards this so-called gender divide. But I don't see how you derive any kind of "insidious intent" on Jennifer's part. Exactly what "insidious intent" are you talking about? Jennifer dated you, didn't she? What did she have to gain? What intent was she hiding? I'm sure she was just as hurt by your breakup as you were. Why else would she spend so much time with you?
If your story is true (and I believe it is), it seems to me that Jennifer was really quite supportive of you; after all, you dumped her, not vice versa.
Rob
Thursday, December 26, 2002 at 16:50:54 (PST)
[12.65.120.140]
Sharon is pathetic: Voila! we have here a non-AF. Are yu curious 1, or Cali Girl, AA gender divide vulture?
That female is pathetic!
Thursday, December 26, 2002 at 13:52:04 (PST)
[61.11.245.6]
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