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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
AA MEN SEEK OUT NON-ASIAN WOMEN
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:02:30 PM)
sian women are only interested in non-Asian men and don't give Asian men the time of day. That's the reason cited by many AA men for dating and marrying non-Asians. A minority of AA men say they simply find non-Asian women more physically attractive or more appealing in terms of personality, values and interests.
The new pairing?
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Whatever the reasons, the rates at which young Asian men are dating and marrying non-Asian women are quickly approaching the rates at which Asian women are outdating and outmarrying (about 38%). Some Asian women are complaining that they aren't getting a fair shake because Asian men have been brainwashed by media standards of desirability.
What are the real reasons for so many Asian men seeking out non-Asian women? How do Asian women really feel about this trend? Who benefits most from it? Will the trend continue? We want to hear your views.
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Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
S.U.A.G.
Where did you get those estimates?
blah
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 05:36:33 (PDT)
[196.40.43.75]
To: Deng Ai
“This is not true for the woman. For a woman to give herself to a man of another race, it is an implicit admission of weakness in one's own race.”
Are you saying that a non-Asian woman who is with an Asian man is a sellout?
Repost
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 02:03:24 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
To: S.A.U.G.
You’re right; my Type 1’s and Type 2’s do not define who actively seek out Asian men. But why should they? If they’re worthy of your time, then they’re worthy of your pursuit, right?
But I think I know what you’re getting at: there are Asian women who fall at the feet of non-Asian (especially white) men, but we don’t get that treatment. You know what I have to say to that? Good. I don’t want my ethnicity to be the “plus” chip in how a woman looks at me. I want to know that she wants me for me.
It’s the same logic as gold diggers and rich guys; they’ll never really know if the woman is after them or their money. Sometimes gold diggers are obvious, but many are seasoned. But if you’re not a rich guy, then the gold diggers excuse themselves from you. Isn’t that a favor they’re doing for you, to not waste your time? By the same token, wouldn’t a woman – whatever her race – who rejects us for our ethnicity be doing us a favor? Since there are so many women and only 24 hours in a day, isn’t time and not women the limiting factor?
I can go ahead and question the validity of your estimates, as you haven’t provided any basis where those numbers came from. But let us take your numbers and assume they are true:
15% of Asian women, according to your numbers, are Type 1’s (those who hate Asian men). Ok, that leaves 85%.
This isnt' so bad. Why all this gloom and doom?
As for flirts, I think I get play both from Asian and white women equally. You mentioned that you don’t get much play from Asian women but you get a lot of it from white women. But I question something of you. In virtually every post of yours, you seem to have a negative slant on Asian women. Is that your outlook in general or is it just your posts? Now if you carry that with you in person, don’t you think that Asian women will feel it and shy away from you?
And let’s be honest here. There’s nothing wrong to admit that you prefer white women. It’s glaringly obvious from all the posts that you write what your preference is. There are Asian women who prefer non-Asian men, but they, almost always, blame us – Asian men – for one reason or another but will never admit to their preference. And believe me, I feel that is really unfair to us. But aren’t you doing exactly the same thing with everything you accuse Asian women of?
Repost
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 02:03:05 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
"1. Women (Asian and non-Asian) who hate Asian men.
2. Women (Asian and non-Asian) who like Asian men.
If you’re an Asian man, just make sure you’re stuck with a Type 2 and not a Type 1. Isn’t this much, much simpler than this marriage rate and that sellout rate?"
My response:
That's a very respectable post I must say, and absolutely true. But in reality an AM encounters the following:
1. AF who is likely very self-concious of race (every time she sees a mirror, for example). Hence she's likely to be MORE repulsed to an AM.
2. Non-AF, likely White women who likely are not concious of race. She's likely more comfortable with herself. Don't shoot me, just making my point.
3. Majority of women in the US are non-Asian.
4. Because of 1 & 2, AF are likely to be MORE prejudiced against AM. In other words a larger percentage of AF will NEVER consider an AM, or if she agrees to date an attractive AM, she still puts him somewhat below WM (average WM likely). Therefore she likely appreciates him less.
I can personally attest that more than one AF have said to me, "you're cute for an Asian guy." Whereas, I'd have a date the next night with a WF, and she tells me "that I'm really hot, or something like that." You can guess which night I had more fun. See my point?
Given the above, WHY would an attractive AM even approach an AF much less exclusively?? Honestly guys, it's a numbers game, picking up women that is. Wouldn't you go where you will likely achieve a higher rate of success?? Just seem to make sense. Look I think AF are hot but I also think non-AF are hot. In the end they're just women to me.
Sometimes it's difficult to accept reality but if one does, and he evaluates the situation properly, he will likely be more successful in anything he does. Well that's really my advice to the young Asian men out there. Just live your life dammit. Don't let people's viewpoints drag you down the road of loneliness and misery. Lastly why complain about sell-AF that will never matter in your life?
Look, simply take this advise for what it's worth. It's coming from a man who's had well-above success with women in general. I'm not bragging by any means, just offering a bit of credibility is all.
One NYC Asian Guy
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 23:33:26 (PDT)
[24.90.169.63]
["so what do you think about the circumstance where an AM see an AF going ut w/ a non AM then automatically assume she is a sellout? Do you think it is a really bad argument too?
AF Sunday, September 29, 2002 at 22:56:20 (PDT) [61.11.245.6] "]
Here is where you are completely wrong about me. I never stated that any AF are sell outs, I only give them the benefit of a doubt. But.. even if they were, it's not like we are able to tell. And it's true that most of them are sell-outs. Don't you agree? I think we[am] have seen enough to make our own conclusion base on experience to make the judgement whether asian female are sell-outs or not.
["If not a racist, she is regarded as narrowminded. Whatever way she goes the AF might have a probelm w/ dating.
AF Sunday, September 29, 2002 at 16:12:38 (PDT) [61.11.245.6]"]
Ok, so again this is your excuse for them to date outside their kind. I mean, not that i care. It's not my business what af does. And it seems as if they [AF] are dating guys A, what ever he may be, just to please [guy]A or any society's political means. Again, bad argument. Very bad!!
Bad excuse
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 21:28:51 (PDT)
[162.83.150.234]
S.U.A.G:
"When I see women checking me out, it's almost always a WF. When a woman flirts with me, she's almost always white. When a woman asks me out, she's never Asian"
That is quite understandable. You don't like AF in the first place. You said you prefer WF and AF are slutty and lack self-esteem. IT is not strange that those whom we are not attracted to are not naturally drawn to us. If you don't like AF, how you think they are likely to warm up to you. On another note, you don't need that, don't you.
unique apple on the tree:
Chill out! I see her main point is not about AM selling out if you read the posts.
Focus on the main topic, people. I don't see why Ed didn't omit those off-topic posts about AF or AM selling out. This forum is about AM and non-AF relationship. Stick to the main topic please....
Asian Storm (AM)
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 19:39:47 (PDT)
[61.11.245.8]
[We have admitted them thus far because the perception that AF sell out is apparently a big factor behind some AM's IR relations. Some posters are getting tiresomely repetitive though. Rather than rehashing the same old negative factgor, let's shift this discussion to the positive factors behind IR. Or is that the only reason AM date IRly? --Ed]
Tree Apple,
Yes, I find it funny how she seems to portray AM who like WF as sell-outs but when it comes to AF dating WM, she's very defensive.
AF or AM who start accusing others of being sell-outs and of "self-hatred" are often acting out of their own romantic failure. If an AM or AF was in a happy relationship with someone regardless of ethnicity, would they really care what others of their race are doing? Probably not.
I think the idea of AM sell-outs is a myth. I have yet to see or hear of AM behaving in the same manner as these so-called AF sell-outs. There may be some out there but they would be vastly out-numbered by their AF equivalents.
S.U.A.G.
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 13:59:41 (PDT)
[12.221.106.26]
"95% WF Don't care about race."
Not true. I would believe it if it's around 50%. Go to the South and ask a WF there if race is a factor for choosing a mate.
FOP
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 12:36:28 (PDT)
[139.95.250.2]
unique apple on the tree/bad apple/face the truth/.....
What problem do you have with me? Why do
you seem so hell bent on putting me down or kicking me out of heer(that's how I feel, correct if I'm wrong.)
are you OK?
Can you take a little rest going out there or to other forums for meaningful debates.
What is going on btw you and me is complete waste of time.
You sound petty like a woman really...
How about AM who only look at one side of the matter who have nothing to say about good AF and AM who sell out yet all in business when it comes to AM selling out?
And You don't seem to get any of my point.
AF-last post for u,bad ap
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 12:03:54 (PDT)
[203.162.121.59]
"Secondly, other AM and I have found that WF are actually more open to dating AM than AF. When I see women checking me out, it's almost always a WF. When a woman flirts with me, she's almost always White"
SUAG, I have to say that this situation always happens to me also. I really wondered if it was my look or something like that as I think I'm a bit more built than the usual stereotype skinny kind of guy. It seems that the only guaranteed time when I get the double take and outright staring from Asian females is when I'm with a non Asian female. I recall specifically one time when I was just talking to a young blond I bumped into that I used to know from high school and a couple of nice looking Asian females came right up to me and stared at me in my face. It made me a bit uneasy as they were shaking their heads disapprovingly so that I could see their reaction. I almost felt like I owed an explanation to these babes whom I didn't even know. My friend was just chattering away completely oblivious to what was transpiring between me and the Asian babes. Please go figure, SUAG.
Asian Brother
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 11:53:13 (PDT)
[152.163.189.233]
S.U.A.G,
Where did you get your estimation, is it from a statistic book? Does these % you have, is it within the united state. And you also have to account the number of white women in this country, and the number of asian women in this country. I know for sure there are less asian in this country then white female. So a low 15% of a lower number is still a low number. And 2% of a larger number is still a larger number. So to put it all together, it equivalent out, this means that there are as much as Af that will date asian men as white female will date asian men. I mean I can't be accurate here b/c I don't know the amount of white and asian women in this country.
playing with numbers
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 09:36:09 (PDT)
[162.83.150.234]
What kind of people (or AMs/AFs) remain inside the heart of the "community" (for the case that such a community exists) if those who outmarry depart from it? Or are the "pure-breeders" not the heart of the Asian communities?
question
Wednesday, October 02, 2002 at 15:20:15 (PDT)
[62.158.89.45]
CaliGirl,
You know what is really funny and ironic. You sounded like a friend I used to work with who, btw is Hispanic. She also told me, from her experience with asian female, her friend, that some wouldn't date asain men. And I know this is true for some AF. But.. .Believe me...there are asian men who wouldn't date their own kind either. I believe there are people from every race that are like this.
[Ex; Some american born don't like fob, or whatever, I mean, this is even true for some Italian born with their own kind]
Cause I remember myself back when I met a German woman that wouldn't date anything but asian. I also remember the time when we were walking in the city, and passed by some fairly good looking white guys. And I ask her, jokingly, what she thought about those guys and if she like them or would date them. Surprisingly, she said "no"; that was my frist experience with a white woman that wouldn't date her own kind.
If I remember correctly from your post, you also said something about Hispanic girls [your friend] who wouldn't date their own kind, is this true? This, however I never come across. But I do assume there are people like this in every race, do you agree?
P.s the old saying of "what goes around comes around" applys here.
Ironic, but true
Wednesday, October 02, 2002 at 09:42:10 (PDT)
[205.232.102.18]
MsL wrote:
"I know a guy I used to work with who is Indonesian and he only liked blond tall white model looking women. ya think he's a "sell out" anybody?"
But don't most men like tall model like blonde white women? I would think there'd be something wrong with a guy who doesn't like tall model like blonde white women.
A point on "selling out". You may not like this, but it is still the man's role to get the woman and the woman's role to give herself to the man. In this context, when a man takes a woman of another race it is not seen as a sign of weakness (selling out) but a sign of power and strength (conquering another man's womenfolk). This is not true for the woman. For a woman to give herself to a man of another race, it is an implicit admission of weakness in one's own race. In today's more liberal society this is becoming less and less true, but it is nonetheless how things still are.
Deng Ai
Wednesday, October 02, 2002 at 08:18:37 (PDT)
[198.6.73.7]
[This page is for discussing AM in IR relations, not the AA Gender Divide. Wildy off-target posts have been omitted. Relevance is key to posting on Goldsea. Our pages aren't opportunities to blow your stack about pet peeves unless they're relevant. --Ed]
To: Go experiment
Wow, finally a word of sanity. I have to agree with you but I’m going to take it a step further. Why should one care about the out-marriage rates anyway? It’s not like an Asian man will be married to 25% of all Asian women. And just because a woman may be non-Asian, it doesn’t mean she’s automatically your friend. Some non-Asian women look down on Asian men just as much as some Asian women look down on Asian men. So, we can look at two types of women:
1. Women (Asian and non-Asian) who hate Asian men.
2. Women (Asian and non-Asian) who like Asian men.
If you’re an Asian man, just make sure you’re stuck with a Type 2 and not a Type 1. Isn’t this much, much simpler than this marriage rate and that sellout rate?
Repost
Wednesday, October 02, 2002 at 02:45:27 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
I have dated both asian and black men. I think both men are very beautiful and have alot to offer a relationship. I have met brilliant and attractive traits in both men. I guess part of having such a view is from having good experiences of being raised in a good homelife with a positive father figure. My dad always treated my mom well, and she was the same with him. It wasn't perfect all the time, but they were basically in a good relationship. They also taught me to not give in to racism, and judge people based on skin. And moving away to college allowed me to meet both asian and black men. I have met good and bad in both.
Teri
Wednesday, October 02, 2002 at 00:01:02 (PDT)
[205.188.209.140]
"No matter how many AFs outdate, if you're worth pursuing they'll make time for you. Actually this is a golden opportunity for AM to go out and experiment."
I agree with this post. Only don't limit yourself, especially if you've got much to offer the ladies. Hence move way beyond the AF, way beyond. Besides it's not about hating the AF. I don't think most of the men here who acknowledge sell-out AF hate AF in general. It's about living one's OWN life and playing one's cards the best it's been dealt. That is why the AM should wake up and smell the coffee. It's got nothing to do with hating those that really don't matter, the sell-out AF.
Another Post
Tuesday, October 01, 2002 at 12:07:03 (PDT)
[208.252.30.254]
CaliGirl,
Don't be so hard on yourself. I am sure plenty of folks here already know a lot of AFs refuse to date AMs. It's not that what you say isn't true, just that some folks aren't very good at handling the truth.
Deng Ai
Tuesday, October 01, 2002 at 12:05:03 (PDT)
[198.6.73.7]
AF:
I agree: I think it's funny that Azn women are refered to as sell-outs so freely, while Asian men are simply "doing their own thing" when it comes to dating outside of their race.
----------------------------
I know a guy I used to work with who is Indonesian and he only liked blond tall white model looking women. ya think he's a "sell out" anybody? Or is he only resorted to that because of the sell-out of Asian females in general.
ms.L
Tuesday, October 01, 2002 at 07:14:54 (PDT)
[155.38.50.114]
WOW!!
Well, I haven't been online for quite a few days but I see many posts to me. Some are just way too long for me to address every detail. I'm not dodging anything for those of you who may think that. I'm just tired of going back & forth w/a couple of people who I'm obviously not going to see eye-to-eye with. I want to assure AF(18) that I'm not also "Chill for a sec and think" but I do appreciate him, much!! Some people seemed to think I was saying "all Asians are sellouts, rude, etc.", I NEVER said that! I also never said that all FOBs & people w/ accents were rude. Finally, I never said that ONLY Asians suffer inferiority complexes. People are misreading my posts & putting words in my mouth. Did they even READ my posts? I do want to thank "SOG", "Chill for a sec and think" & a few others who understood them. I have nothing against Asians. I was under the "impression" that Goldsea would be a good place to ask questions & get honest answers since it's anonymous, but evidently I was severely mistaken. Whenever I ask questions, I somehow get labeled a racist simply b/c I'm not Asian! My boyfriend is Asian and prior to him, I hadn't dated many Asians so I don't know everything about them. That's WHY I ask questions. I'm not attacking anyone. All I know is from what I've personally encountered & AFs I met thru other friends. These were the girls who told me they don't date Asian men. "6'1 Korean Guy" seems to think I'm lying about this. I don't really care b/c I know what I was told. Although I was already sure not all AFs rejected AMs, it was very odd to me that all the AFs I met thru other friends told me they refused to date Asian men. Try to put yourself in my shoes. If I didn't know any Asians and then all the ones I met told me the same thing, that they don't like AMs, what am I supposed to think?! I knew I didn't have anything against AM & I found them attractive. I just didn't understand why these girls were so against them. Perhaps it was b/c I met all these girls thru WFs. Maybe that's why I came across AFs that only dated WM. I don't know. I'm sure if I had met AFs at an Asian party or an all Asian club or something, it would have been different. I would have met AFs who love AM. Right? But since I didn't know any, I never seem to be anywhere where I make AF friends but I would like to. I think you can only gain a true understanding & appreciation of ANY race or culture by becoming more familiar with it (ie: having Asian friends). Most of what I have learned about Asians has been from Goldsea and the few Asians I've come in contact with. If I've offended anyone, I deeply apologize. In my 2nd post a while back, I did become defensive b/c I had just asked some questions & felt I was being attacked for asking... which lead to my 2nd post which is what obviously offended some people that I didn't intend to offend, especially AF(18) b/c I know she is a proud AF & isn't like the women I've met. So again, for anyone I've offended...I APOLOGIZE! :-) And don't think I don't learn from my mistakes! I obviously need to ask questions in a less inflamatory manner.
To: "Chill for a sec and think" & "SOG"
Thanks for the support. And you are correct, I do have a lot of respect for Asians just like I do people of every other race. I guess in my haste for understanding, I offended some. I'm glad you didn't take my posts as an attack on you. It wasn't my intention.
CaliGirl
Monday, September 30, 2002 at 20:43:32 (PDT)
[63.233.25.87]
. As for the average AM that crosses the Af's path, well, lets just say she'll hardly acknowledge them if at all. It's definitely a good thing for the AM to wake up and smell the coffee, and as negative as this sounds to move on from the AF. Trust me on this one fellows. I've had plenty of experiences.
To: Just a NYC Asian Guy and other AM bashing AFs
Don't you think you're over exaggerating and generalizing? Afterall most Asian American women still marry Asian AMerican men, like 75 percent according to US census. Unless you have another stat, I'll take their word for it. I am too married to a white lady (second one) but without sounding superfical or pretentious, I had and still have many Asian women making inquiries about me so to say all or even most Asian women are sellouts is crazy. No matter how many AFs outdate, if you're worth pursuing they'll make time for you. Actually this is a golden opportunity for AM to go out and experiment.
Go experiment
Monday, September 30, 2002 at 19:54:45 (PDT)
[152.163.189.233]
NYC guy:
sad to hear what you 've experienced w/ some AFs. What bother me is it is not something cali girl had vivid experiences, why she is so hell bent on pointing out that trait among some AF?
Well if you feel you have a better time around non AF, so be it. Live your life so that you won't have to look back and regret. ANd just don't hate anyone. WIsh you lots of happiness!
Joy:
good point. Another thing is the fact that asian women were allowed entrance is now a reason for the gender divide.
AF(18)
Monday, September 30, 2002 at 10:39:34 (PDT)
[61.11.245.6]
I used to think AF were sell outs but after thinking from their perspective, I got nothing against them.
SOG
Monday, September 30, 2002 at 10:14:33 (PDT)
[128.193.169.80]
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