Jet Li vs Jackie Chan: Who's Better for the Asian Image | Asian American Issues

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JET LI vs JACKIE CHAN: DUELING IMAGES
(Updated Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 05:56:23 PM)

n late July 2001 the world's two top martial arts stars announced a deal to co-produce and co-star in an action flick to be filmed in late 2002 for a 2003 release. The question naturally arises: what kind of movie could do justice to two such divergent types? Jackie Chan is a highly acrobatic clown who has built his following on a self-effacing counry bumpkin image. Jet Li is a deadly serious warrior who finds it easier to crack a man's neck than a smile.
Now that both global megastars are releasing big-budget Hollywood films at a breakneck pace for seven-figure salaries, they are the most visible Asians in the American filmgoing consciousness. Whether we Asian Americans like it or not, our image is shaped more by the screen exploits and antics of these two broken-English speaking foreigners than by any dozen Asian American actors. In the filmgoing psyche the sober, chaste and deadly-efficient Chinese cop in Kiss of the Dragon is pitted against the nimble goofball in Rush Hour 2.
Which Hong Kong star is better for the image of Asian Americans?

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WHAT YOU SAY

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"mr. black man, for your information EVERY entertainer back then, if they wanted to portray blacks had to put on "blackface," even if they're black entertainers. and let's NOT forget the minstriel shows. in fact, spike lee himself calls these "comedians" like tucker, rock, etc, the new generation of minstriels. so i don't think you should be talking about how enlightened these new generation of "comedians" are changing media perceptions when their behavior so much represents the old minstriel shows of old."

Villageidiot, yes, actually I already knew that the black actors had to use black face paint as well. And, I’m already aware of minstrel shows. I have also heard the statement before that new-age comedians are nothing but minstrels as well. As a matter of fact, this argument could be made toward many, many entertainment outlets that blacks dominate (i.e. basketball, football, rap music, etc.).

These are all entertainment enterprises with the dominant entertainment leaders being black “performers.” The funny thing is, these black performers are performing for predominantly the white population of America. For instance, it’s well noted that over 60% of all rap music sales in this country are from whites.

With that being said, let’s not pretend like these performers are not aware of the fact that they have to perform for white audiences. This is known! But this fact doesn’t necessarily mean that the actors, singers, and athletes have to act, sing, and play for white interests? Spike Lee has some insight. But his is probably an unfinished observation. Let’s take Chris Rock as an example.

Rock played the white man’s game and went through the same route Eddie Murphy did with Saturday Night Live. After putting in his time, he accelerated himself to an almost autonomous position in entertainment media. He even got his own show. Now, if you’re suggesting that Chris Rock is a minstrel, given the type of comedy he does now, then you don’t really understand Chris Rock.

Rock is anything but a minstrel. His comedy is very, very political. He is by far the least censurable black comedian out there. He was speaking out about OJ when no one else would dare, he talks about poverty, white privilege, inter-communal problems within black America, and so on.

Also, don’t forget what happened when the Oscars invited him to perform during their ceremony in 1999! Goodness Gracious! Those Hollywood whites thought he would tone down his highly political voice and cater more to the audience. But what did he do? He started off talking trash about rich white people! Just to let them know that he’s not the type of negro that can be bought.

I remember that performance because I was laughing my head off at home and I knew other politically aware individuals were too, but that Hollywood audience wasn’t laughing one bit! Now, if Rock’s a minstrel, then somebody’s got to change the definition.

So Spike is an intelligent man, but so are Chris Rock and other entertainers who are trying to make a difference.

"to my knowledge there haven't been ANY asians who put on "yellow-face" in order to be in the media. it's only been whites who put on "yellow-face" in order to "portray" asians in the media in the previous decades. and to this end, asians are still NOT being represented as we would like to be in terms of self-determination in media projects."

I think that statement is true. I’m not positive, but it sounds plausible. Of course, while there haven’t been any yellow-face-painted Asians in the media, there have been Asians who have had to cover up their face.

For instance, the first asian superhero in American television was Bruce Lee in the series created by George W. Trendle, named “The Green Hornet” (in 1966). He was the sidekick “Kato” because naturally a white man had to be the “official” hero. The producers had Lee keep his mask on at all times so that the audience wouldn’t discover he was asian and lower the show’s ratings. So take that for you want.

"also, it is hypocritical and contradictory for you to think that no asians are trying to change the media. many asian filmmakers and asian actors (including myself) ARE trying to change the media, but there isn't any market for more subtle and truthful "asian films" because the market is dominated only by those chop-socky martial arts flicks."

I don’t believe I ever said that “no” Asians are trying to change the media. I’m relatively sure that this is a misinterpretation. What I said was merely a suggestion that a greater and more unified focus should be put into establishing asian directors and producers instead of actors, because that’s where the power lies.

I’m sure that efforts are already underway. If so, then let’s support those efforts and see them through. I understand your point about the supply-demand curve for media economics. Sure. The American population is probably not ready or willing to invest the money in “non-traditional” asian films by view of the american perspective. But, however, should you really expect this?

Underdogs have to build their power-structure up from a foundation within their own community of respect. Do you think that John Singleton, Spike Lee, or Allen and Albert Hughes just broke out into mainstream America? No, not at all! They were all “underground” in the black community first. Making films that catered primarily to a black audience. Then, once they made a name for themselves, Hollywood accepted them and allowed them into the strata of the general public eye. So it will take time.

"and do you honestly think that no asians can have black/white/hispanic/
middle-eastern social networks? for your information, many asians (including myself) DO get along and involve themselves with the ethnic communities. in fact, in many demostrations on racial inequality for blacks and hispanics you will see asians showing up, but when something like sara silverman's "chink" commentary is made, no NAACP or other ethnic rights groups have said anything save for the asian media watchdogs."

Again, I believe I never said that “no” Asians “can” have non-asian friends or networks. Actually, this is the exact opposite of what I was trying to say.

What I meant was, that they can, just like anyone else, and that it is an opportunity that noone, including Asians, should pass up.

As for the rest of your statement, I’d steer clear of stereotypes if I were you. It seems you have bought into the blunt characterization that Asians are “there” for blacks, but blacks aren’t “there” for Asians. This is clearly an unsubstantiated, and largely, an unsubstantiatable claim.

You’d have to survey every chapter of every type of black civil rights group and asian civil rights group to even begin to make such a statement. Remember, we’re trying to absolve unnecessary stereotypes, not propagate them.

"of course things sometimes change for the better. but to think that people should accept offsensive racial humor on the basis of "jest" is to open a whole can of worms on the trend of unspoken racism. let's just permit all racial epitets just because they're meant to be "funny," that in itself is of course an outlet for the embedded racism still prevelant today."

I hear you. And again, I never claimed nor do I promote the use of “all” racial jokes just because they’re funny. Seriously, please read my words more carefully. I think, like many do, there is a limit of which comedians should adhere to when making racial jokes.

I think that many of them do anyway, because a multi-racial audience will let them know when they’re offended. They could, however, get away with “too much” in an audience that’s uni-racial and of the same race as themselves.

I think that some black comedians (as well as non-black comedians) go too far sometimes with their humor. I was watching Comic View the other night, when one black female comedian was addressing the interracial relationship issue between black men and other non-black women. She was giving jokes as to why black men look for women in other races.

Well, it was funny up until she got to asian women. I didn’t even laugh. She said something like “And we all know why black men like asian women, I mean they got over 150 positions…”

Interestingly enough, the cameraman zoomed in on the one asian female that happened to be in the audience at the time (the rest of the audience was primarily black). And let me tell you, her face was HEATED!

You could tell that she was very offended by the joke. So, no, I don’t think free speech supercedes a responsible, empathetic speech. Comedians should censure themselves, even if the audience doesn’t.

No doubt about it. There are a lot of repressed notions every group of people has with other groups of people. The key, I think, is to first recognize that it’s there. And this means to distinguish clearly between what remarks and connotations are meant to be degrading, and which that aren’t… but are offensive nevertheless. Thanks for the comments villageidiot.

Mr. Black Man ens7@cornell.edu Thursday, August 16, 2001 at 10:54:41 (PDT)

Why compare these two choices, when there will more coming your way?
First, as far these 2 megastars are concerned, go for the action, nothing more.
Second,want some acting skills & proper eloquence in acting, watch Chow Yun Fatt. He is jewel of Asian in american film market.

Dynatech ml218830@magix.com.sg Monday, August 13, 2001 at 19:39:23 (PDT)

My husband is a mixture of Jackie, Jet and Chow Yun Fat. He has a funny sense of humor, self-deprecating, similar to Jackie Chan. Although I would say Jackie takes it alittle too far just to get some laughs.

He also has a serious side like Jet Li. There is a time for every emotion just like there is a time to be serious.

Then there are also times when he is just sweet like Jet and Aaliyah in Romeo Must Die.

And of course, there are times when he is just romantic, showing his sensitive side like Chow Yun Fat in Crouching Tiger.

Every one of these films are not perfect and does contain stereotypes. But if you look at the qualities of each men, Jet, Chow, and Jackie, you will notice that it represents many of the qualities of Asian men.

As great as these three are, they are still not my favorite Asian Male actor. My favorite is Phillip Rhee, in Best of the Best 1 to part 4. He has all of the above qualities and drop dead gorgeous too.
Carrie Monday, August 13, 2001 at 16:50:21 (PDT)

To Mr. Black Man,

I really enjoyed reading your comments. They are quite insightful and are on target.

Bottom line its a matter of going out there to do something about it. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, there aren't any asian american producers who have been able to produce something of value to the asian american experience and at the same time will make a significant impact on the main stream. Perhaps its more of a matter that the industry is at a point where its willing on taking a chance on putting big money on the table to invest in a project like that. I admit it would be a risky venture.

Again I don't mind the kung fu and sometimes self deprecating humor can be healthy. But the point is is there any opportunity to provide alternative views. Right now the only forum to explore the Asian American experience is in the theater and maybe some Sundance Theater Festival type of work. Its out there. I admire the asian actors willing to do that work....knowing that the monetary rewards are few.

I took a History of African American Theater course, and yes what occured in the past sucked. The Vaudeville and Minstrel stuff was pretty harmful stuff. You know though whenever you are in a country where there is one dominant population, there is a tendency to two dimensionalize foreigners. If you go over to Hong Kong or China, I heard the "white" characters are pretty lame where the Chinese are of course exalted. I've seen some Chinese kung fu movies to know.

So its everywhere. Don't make it right. But its reality. I guess we just have to take up more of a fight to get our art out there to see.

Thanks for the comments.

Enoch Sunday, August 12, 2001 at 21:32:18 (PDT)

mr. black man,

for your information EVERY entertainer back then, if they wanted to portray blacks had to put on "blackface," even if they're black entertainers. and let's NOT forget the minstriel shows. in fact, spike lee himself calls these "comedians" like tucker, rock, etc, the new generation of minstriels. so i don't think you should be talking about how enlightened these new generation of "comedians" are changing media perceptions when their behavior so much represents the old minstriel shows of old.

to my knowledge there haven't been ANY asians who put on "yellow-face" in order to be in the media. it's only been whites who put on "yellow-face" in order to "portray" asians in the media in the previous decades. and to this end, asians are still NOT being represented as we would like to be in terms of self-determination in media projects.

aslo, it is hypocritical and contradictory for you to think that no asians are trying to change the media. many asian filmmakers and asian actors (including myself) ARE trying to change the media, but there isn't any market for more subtle and truthful "asian films" because the market is dominated only by those chop-socky martial arts flicks.

and do you honestly think that no asians can have black/white/hispanic/middle-eastern social networks? for your information, many asians (including myself) DO get along and involve themselves with the ethnic communities. in fact, in many demostrations on racial inequality for blacks and hispanics you will see asians showing up, but when something like sara silverman's "chink" commentary is made, no NAACP or other ethnic rights groups have said anything save for the asian media watchdogs.

of course things sometimes change for the better. but to think that people should accept offsensive racial humor on the basis of "jest" is to open a whole can of worms on the trend of unspoken racism. let's just permit all racial epitets just because they're meant to be "funny," that in itself is of course an outlet for the embedded racism still prevelant today.

my 2 cents.
villageidiot Sunday, August 12, 2001 at 21:27:53 (PDT)

to lin-shanghai, what hypocrisy! as first generation asian-american i find it contradictory for you to preach asian/asian-american or whatever division harmony when yourself is causing such a rift in terms of "whiny" "weakling asian-american." and for your information, the most suicides by asians in this country are by the "FOB" asians who must satisfy their old-country culture expectations to excel. how much japanese and asian immigrants commit suicide in this country? that's the problem you should be focusing on.
villageidiot Sunday, August 12, 2001 at 21:11:12 (PDT)

My asian american friends, these comments are quite true in many respects and the ambivalent frustration is exactly the kind of emotional situation black americans have been grappling with for decades with respect to the entertainment industry in this country.

I'd like to say first off that I enjoy both Jet Li and Jackie Chan, and even old school Bruce Lee. But I don't think that the necessary inference has to be that of negative stereotypical significance.

Of course, the reality is that it is for many un-educated americans. The same arguments could be made about Hoop Dreams, White Men Can't Jump, and He Got Game for black men. These movies portray black american males as basketball playing hustlers. Of course, this isn't true for all black men, but that's the stereotype.

First, I'd like to acknowledge the fact that the movie/entertainment industry in this country is getting alot better as time goes by. Let me offer some education. If you know your US history, you'd know that the first movie hit in this country was D.W. Griffith's "The Birth of a Nation."

This movie was about how black men were born rapists whose sole goal was to de-flower the pure white woman. The movie consisted of a white male with black face-paint, portraying himself as a black man, chasing down a virgin white female to satisfy his rapist urges. The protagonists in the movie are the Ku Klux Klan, who come and save the white woman from the ever-threatening dangers of the black male.

Now that's STEREOTYPING! Blacks couldn't even get into movies. White people just painted their faces with dark paint and portrayed black people any which way they desired. Even President Woodrow Wilson watched this movie in his oval office and later commented that he enjoyed the film and thought it to be accurate. He even required his entire cabinet to watch it with him. So my point is, times have changed.

Things aren't as bad as they appear to the narrow-sighted vision of us young adults... because we're too young to appreciate how far this country has come in terms of stereotypes.

With that said, this isn't to say that things are perfect now and that harmful stereotyping isn't still pervasive enough to negatively impact people's lives. No, that's not true either. I haven't seen Rush Hour 2 yet, but Rush Hour 1, I have seen. And yes, I recognized the stereotypes being thrown around from whites to blacks, from blacks to asians, and from asians to blacks. I'd imagine that RH2 is similar.

The difference that I recognized in Rush Hour sterotyping is that it isn't particularly meant to be hurtful. If it is, it is largely unintentional.

Chris Tucker is a comedian. Not only that, but a black comedian. In order to put his comments and actions into perspective, you'd have to be well-educated on what sorts of things tend to be funny in the black community. Get some black friends. Hang around alot of black folk and you'll see what I mean.

In my opinion, sure, there is some negative stereotypes being thrown around. But that's not surprising, because that pretty much wraps up what black comedians do! "Burning" is an age-old tradition in the black american community. And it isn't always meant to be degrading. Sometimes it is a major way of showing that you "got luv" for someone.

So if anyone has a problem with Chris Tucker, they should have a problem with Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryer, D.L. Hugley, the Wayans brothers, etc., because that style of humor is the prevalent type for black comedians no matter who it is directed toward... whether it be chinese folk, white folk, black folk, etc.

So I think once you've come to understand that, you will come to understand how you really shouldn't be offended if you're asian american listening to the jocular comments of Chris Tucker.

Is that type of humor good? Is that the way it should be? I don't know. But if people are educated, this fact wouldn't matter so much because we'd all know that it's just meant to be funny.

Now, the matter of Jackie Chan being an asian with broken english and so on and being a representative of asian americans, even though he's not american is a different issue. All I can say is, if asian americans truly want media stereotyping to change, you've got to get asian americans making some of the media!

Spike Lee, famous black american movie producer and director, has done WONDERS for the black american community. From Do The Right Thing to Malcolm X, Spike has changed the way all americans view black americans and the black american experience.

Native americans are trying to get their own directors and producers out there to do what Spike has done. And I think asian americans need to do the same if there is a communal wish for particular stereotypes to change.

Probably, the best method to break down the negative stereotypical influence of the media is to usurp it in your own life. The thing is, people believe stereotypes because it's all they have.

I have many asian, asian american, and white american friends who have only one black friend... ME. And if it weren't for me usurping their stereotypical views about black people, OH MY GOODNESS!

So, for the love of grits, go out and break down some of these divisions. Ask yourself, do you just hang around other asians, or other whites, or other blacks? If so, why? Do you even have any meaningful acquantainces, if not friendships, with people who come from a very different background then yourself?

Stereotypes rule our lives, only because we let them. Complaining on a forum isn't really going to solve any of our problems.

If you're asian american, go out and educate yourself on the black american experience. Or at least try to initiate some friendships with black people. And black folk need to do the same. And white folk, and so on.

We can't just preach inter-racial harmony, we have to live it. So let's all cease our complaining, and actually go out and do something about it.
Mr. Black Man ens7@cornell.edu Sunday, August 12, 2001 at 11:26:32 (PDT)

Most American born asians are stupid in a sense that they have no pride in their ancestry, constantly trying to blend in with external groups but at the same time do not have enough balls to speak out for themselves. They make every attempt to distant themselves from other Asians in order to form a "seperate" group, while at the same time, not realizing now much slack their own people cut them, and how much respect they get from the Asians living in Asian, who sadly and wrongfully think that the Asian Americans are creating a good reputation and making them look good across the Pacific. The truth is, the Asian Americans here are prideless and gutless. They see other Asian brothers as inferior, maybe due to American media, at the same time not knowing that is it mostly the newly immigrated Asians who are working hard and making whatever positive reputation we have here. For example, immigrated Asian school kids excel in every field whereas most Asian Americans perform on a average level along with the rest of them white black spanish morons. The "Chinese poeple are smart" saying is not earned by you stupid AAs, but by the people over seas due to their superior education system as well as hardworking ethics. I understand that many AAs here also have the tradition to highly regard education, however, after a few generations in the States they get rid of all their traditions in an attempt to blend and reject the truth of who they really are. Some of you should stop bitching about how Jet Li and Jackie Chan are creating certain images for you on the silver screen, because they are the ONLY ONES who are even REPRESENTING you. If you dont like it, you might as well shoot yourself because you can't change who the f*** you are.
Lin - Shanghai DevilBBBen@hotmail.com Saturday, August 11, 2001 at 08:49:24 (PDT)

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