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TAIWAN INDEPENDENCE
OR UNIFICATION?

(Updated Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 05:55:06 PM)

he most pressing Asian foreign policy issue currently faced by the U.S. is the Taiwan question. The email we receive in reaction to our articles relating to this issue suggests that it's an emotional one for many of our readers. Perhaps one reason for the emotion is the fact that the issue isn't amenable to an easy or simple solution.
     The first historical mention of Taiwan appears to have been when Portugese traders found it to be a resting place on their journey to Japan and named it Isla Formosa. Beijing's claim to Taiwan dates back to the 16th century when a Chinese general fought off the Portugese to claim the island for the emperor. In 1895 the expansion-minded Japanese annexed it after defeating China in a war on the Corean peninsula. China briefly reestablished sovereignty over Taiwan following Japan's defeat in August of 1945.
     At the time the official government of China, as recognized by most nations of the world, was under the control of the Kuomingtang headed by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek. He was engaged in a desperate war against Mao Tse-tung's peasant army. Despite billions of dollars of aid by the U.S. based mainly on intensely partisan reporting by Henry Luce's Time/Life empire, the spectacularly corrupt Chiang lost that war and fled to Taiwan with 2.5 million followers.
     He established the present government of Taiwan on December 7, 1949 and proclaimed it the sole legitimate government of all China. Mao made the same claim. The claims competed until 1971 when it became clear to most of the world that Mao's was more persuasive. Taiwan was kicked out of the UN. The Beijing government took its place as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, a seat given in recognition of China's role in fighting Japan in World War II.
     Mired in its own misguided war in Vietnam, and intensely fearful of anything red, the U.S. was one of the last nations to recognize the legitimacy of Mao's government. In 1972 Richard Nixon made his historic journey to Beijing. In 1976 the U.S. took the next step by recognizing the People's Republic as China's sole legitimate government. It began pursuing the "One China, One Taiwan" policy under which official diplomatic contacts were exclusively with Beijing but continued to sell billions of dollars a year of fighter jets, helicopters, tanks and missiles to Taiwan to help defend against a possible Chinese effort to refunify by force.
     In 1997 President Clinton declared a "strategic partnership" with Beijing over intense Republican objections. It was an astute recognition of the fact that China's 1.2 billion people must be accorded a central place in U.S. foreign policy. But the historic, moral and economic ties that bind the U.S. to Taiwan's 23 million people stand squarely in the way of cutting off arms sales and renouncing the pact under which the U.S. obliged itself to come to Taiwan's defense in the event of attack by China. That U.S. pledge and continuing arms sales continue to inflame Beijing to periodic bursts of violent anti-U.S. rhetoric.
     Taiwan has been a domocracy since 1989 when it legalized opposition parties. It held its first democratic presidential elections in 1990. Lee Teng-hui handily won to keep the presidency which he had originally gained in 1988. Lee won again in 1996. Since 1997 he began efforts to warm up relations with Beijing by agreeing to enter into negotiations under a "One-China" framework with an eye toward eventual reunification. Beijing's leaders continued their highly successful campaign of pressuring diplomatic partners into severing ties with Taiwan. China even raised hell when Lee made a semi-surreptitious trip to New York in 1997. Since then China has scared neighborning nations like the Philippines into not allowing Lee to enter. As of 1999 Taiwan's diplomatic allies number about 18 out of about 220 nations on earth. All are tiny, impoverished Central American, African and Pacific Island nations that appreciate Taiwan's generous aid packages. Pago Pago is considered a major ally.
     Feisty Lee Teng-hui launched his own guerilla offensive in July, 1999 by declaring over German radio that Taiwan was in fact a separate state and would negotiate with Beijing on an equal footing. That sent Beijing into a tizzy. It fired off bombastic threats to take Taiwan by force and to annhilate the U.S. Navy if it intervenes. On October 18 during his British visit Chinese President Jiang Zemin assumed a softer, more relaxed tone in telling a London newspaper that China would be peacefully reunited with Taiwan under a one-nation two-systems formula by the middle of the next century. One might have expected Lee to have been relieved by that statement. Instead, he brushed it aside as "a hoax". China should try instead to set a timetable for its democratization as that was the only way to ensure reunification, sneered Lee's Mainland Affairs Council chairman Su Chi. Most polls show that a clear majority of Taiwanese prefer to maintain the status quo indefinitely rather than moving toward unification.
     Beijing's reunification mandate appears based on the idea that in winning the mainland, the Chinese people had rejected the "criminal" Kuomingtang and its right to rule any part of China. It also sees Taiwan as a galling symbol of the division wrought and preserved by western imperialists -- namely, the U.S. -- seeking to enjoy global hegemony at the expense of Chinese dignity.
     Meanwhile the U.S. remains on the hook to defend Taiwan and sell it arms though doing so keeps its relations with a quarter of humanity rocky and on edge. Under its current policy the U.S. is the asbestos firewall that keeps friction between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait from igniting into war.
     Should the U.S. continue alienating Beijing to help Taiwan protect its independence or improve relations with China by pressuring Taiwan to reunite?

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WHAT YOU SAY

[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
---------The s-300 and the S-400 triumph is quite capable of tracking and destroying stealth aircraft.

considering the fact, that the F22 hasnt entered service yet....
no B2's have EVER been shot down, no Comanches have ever been shot down and no B1 Lancers have been shot down...Id say your comment is bull.
JC    Thursday, October 17, 2002 at 04:48:02 (PDT)    [61.151.231.37]
AC,
We Chinese can be sneaky and are rarely candid.

Who's China's biggest competitor, threat and preventing it from being anything more than a regional power? The good'ol USofA.

China would be dead if they did anything themselves, so why not let some moron from the mid-East do their dirty work for them. After all, they're use to destroying things as opposed to creating.

Asia, Europe and even S. America have democracies. Why can't they do that in muslim countries?

Maybe the supreme court wanted someone with balls in charge for once? Like I said, the Democrats would've probably apologized for being so successful and compensated the terrorists families since all their problems are America's fault.
huu76    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 19:10:45 (PDT)    [64.231.98.65]
Proud to be an American.

>shanghai is china's crown jewel and the level of pollution both physically, mentaly and otherwise is astonishing

you must be confusing Shanghai with some of the other large cities in China (maybe Beijing)... and also, China's crown jewel is HK, (HK does belong to China now) not Shanghai, although Shanghai may surpass HK sometime in the not-too-distant future... and HK is far and away superior to any American city.
And USA cities are not polluted mentally?!!! LOL...

Yeah, I guess your brotha and sista gangsters and rapists and robbers and rapists are really contributing to the cleanliness and beauty of American cities like NYC,Chicago, LA etc.

Tell that to the family of the poor Chinese deliveryman who was jumped last week in NYC by one of your brothas ...

Anyway, nothing personal, you are full of it...
ABC who knows China    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 11:18:40 (PDT)    [24.90.51.12]
Some places can read Goldsea, and some can't, apparently.
_______________________________________

DNS lookup query result for http://goldsea.com in USA is:

Name: goldsea.com
Address: 216.218.164.204
DNS lookup qerry result for http://goldsea.com from China are following:

---------------------------------------------
1. DNS Server reply from Beijing, China:
Domain: goldsea.com can not be determined.
---------------------------------------------
2. DNS Server reply from Guangzhou, China:
Name: goldsea.com
Address: 216.218.164.204

---------------------------------------------
3. DNS Server reply from Shanghai, China:
Domain: goldsea.com can not be determined.
---------------------------------------------
4. DNS Server reply from Shenzhen, China:
Name: goldsea.com
Address: 216.218.164.204
idle rambling, off topic B.E.Verins@aol.com    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 11:05:31 (PDT)    [148.4.33.125]
probably nothing to do with Taiwan independence, but if you want to know how China censors sites, it's very clever.

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2002/10/7/27311p.html
B.E.V B.E.Verins@aol.com    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 11:02:42 (PDT)    [148.4.33.125]
"sacrifising the health of their people doing so by using inneficient pollutants and unrealistic building techniques."

Sounds like why people were suing the administration over working at the Skunk Works / Area 51 for using experimental paints and adhesives that were poisoning them. At least they got to sue, I suppose.

""shanghai is china's crown jewel and the level of pollution both physically, mentaly and otherwise is astonishing"

Sounds a lot like Los Angeles, actually.
B.E.Verins B.E.Verins@aol.com    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 11:00:00 (PDT)    [148.4.33.125]
"Freedom to speak irresponsible rhetoric, Freedom to strip while selling beatle-nuts, Freedom to fist-fight, Freedom to travel to PRC, Freedom to ban PRC from coming to ROC, Freedom to ignore copyrights while being a member of the WTO...finally, and lastly freedom to contribute soft money to the USA congress."

Funny how in Hong Kong, I can get bootleg DVDs, VCDs, and PS2 / Xbox / Gamecube discs for $3... I thought China was part of the WTO too... :-) liksang.com was recently shut down (they're back, and all goody-two-shoes now) but others in HK are still quite prolific on the web store scene.

Anyway, Taiwan actually sounds like freedom done right, to be honest... Heck, it sounds a lot like New York City right now...
B.E.Verins B.E.Verins@aol.com    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 10:56:10 (PDT)    [148.4.33.125]
Since I have been clicking on links in http://www.peopledaily.com.cn/ for an hour now, with no "401" errors, what's the link that I shouldn't be able to access in the USA?

Also, then, this is another bit of USA hypocrisy since the USA censors websites...

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0%2C1283%2C55530%2C00.html

I wonder if Taiwan blocks websites too?
B.E.Verins B.E.Verins@aol.com    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 10:51:06 (PDT)    [148.4.33.125]
You say that US dosent have to sent carrier groups. Guess what bud? the cruise missiles of the US does not yet have the capability to attack moving targets. They are used for fixed targets. IE they will not do anything against the chinese navy.

To defend taiwan, US must send in her carrier battle groups, it is the only feasable way. The battle will be bloody and nasty, US will suffer tremendous losses as do the chinese. I dont doubt a few US carrier groups will see the bottom of the ocean. China will always be there, she can build more and more equipment and fight and fight. Will the US be willing to fight the chinese for taiwan forever?. It is tactically significantly against US forces to defend taiwan.

Today 2002, US has a good chance of defending taiwan, while suffering heavy casulties. By the year 2010 which is very close indeed, china will have upgraded her navy to a level that will be impossiable for the US navy to challange, even if she were to sent her whole pacific fleet. The reason being the new generation of ASCM are powered by ramjet and are incrediable. They go at speeds of mach 5+ to give you how that works imagine traveling hundreds of miles in a few seconds! These new puppies will be be modifiied to be stealth making interception almost impossialbe.

If worse comes to worse, China and the US can always resort to nuclear arms. That is a day everyone will be happy!

"i do however fear china's nuclear arsenal. you know why? most of china i have been to looks war torn already. if they started a nuclear war, they wouldnt lose much, theyd just make the rest of the world look like their boarders."

Good job, at least you said something intelligent, this is enough for US to stay out of the taiwan china conflict!

s    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 10:31:24 (PDT)    [128.193.4.98]
Proud to be American

Have you ever read the US nuclear doctrine? Your analysis is so choke full of errors its embarassing.

Although US may or may not choose to retaliate using nukes, china has the potential and the capability to nuke the US anytime and anywhere she wishes.

Can US sustain a war of attrition with china? I dont think so. Will the people of the US support defence of taiwan even though the russians has pledged their pacific fleet to protect the chinese navy? I dont think so.

The s-300 and the S-400 triumph is quite capable of tracking and destroying stealth aircraft. Dont mention the F-16 and F-15, you must be foolish to think either Japan or Korea will allow US airforce birds to be flown attack missions to chinese mainland. Not to mention these birds will be shot out so fast it wouldent be funny.

Also you are over estimating the attack capabilities of the aircraft, although formidable they dont pose a significant hazard on the chinese military. To start bombings without total air superiority or elimination of major AAA and SAM sites would cause the US to lose many many planes.

lol, you are so foolish, it is funny.
SOG    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 10:24:07 (PDT)    [128.193.4.98]
"You really are misguided. The USA CIA used to officially fund Bin-Laden."

That's an incorrect statement. The CIA funded the muhjehedin (sp?) movement, of which bin Laden was a part. He was not a senior fighter, and he did not receive any additional, specialized training which the rest of the fighters received. He was a foot soldier. He received no special consideration, and was taught light infantry TTPs by 5th Special Forces. That's it.
Apache Driver    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 08:49:19 (PDT)    [67.84.132.190]
SOG

Your situation posed is hypothetical.
I can play along.

1.) US only will send at most 3 carrier groups in, that will take a few days at least.

The us doesnt have to use carrier groups depending where they are fighting. we have bases in s.k., japan and the philippines. after the success in afghanistan and kosovo, im farely certain a war with china will be mostly fought in the skies and considering the fact that america is air superior, i have no doubt we would be fighting mostly air wars, interceptions and long range strikes.
we have the b2 bomber which can fly from the phillipines to china and back without refuling. no need to use nukes yet. that plane carries 16 fire bombs, mk82's or otherwise conventional weapons.
we have the f15 or f16 which could easily take migs or sukuois. not to mention the runway bombing weapons carried by an f111 or a prowler.
and for gods sake...the f22? goodbye you communist twinkletoes. thats all ill say about that.


it is a 2 our flight from japan to china (45 min if you are using a supersonic fighter, 25 minutes at supercruise)
just how long do you think it takes to bomb the shit out of fujian or shanghai?
ill give it about 1 hour tops and be home for cornflakes.


---------china has the sunbrun anti ship crusie missile---------

china has a great load of marines dont they? wow. thats all fine and good. but history has tought us, technology always beats manpower. a sunburn is only good against a ship though. listen up china ! we have airplanes coming from your next door neighboors backyards. this isnt the spanish armada !


------china is acquiring ------
this is where you should end your sentence. acquiring means that, they do not have yet, or are in the process of... if taiwan war broke out tommorrow, i suggest china, aquire bodybags.


---------china is going to have...-----
you just dont get it do you sog?


the fact of the matter is, in a hypothetical situation, you cant win or lose. however, history has shown us who does what, who wins where, and who is who. china sat on their ___ for thousands of years and now they are paying the price. tying to catch up to white imperialism and sacrifising the health of their people doing so by using inneficient pollutants and unrealistic building techniques.i do however fear china's nuclear arsenal. you know why? most of china i have been to looks war torn already. if they started a nuclear war, they wouldnt lose much, theyd just make the rest of the world look like their boarders.
shanghai is china's crown jewel and the level of pollution both physically, mentaly and otherwise is astonishing.
they are a weak nation and i guarantee you, if they get into an international d__k measuring contest, they will lose.
Proud to be an American.    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 05:49:36 (PDT)    [61.151.231.37]


Taiwan belongs to US,

Hehehehe that's why Taiwan feel it is their god given right to bootleg everything that comes from the USA.

USA belongs to ROC in their minds on the island. People on Taiwan have freedoms that approach anarchy.

Freedom to speak irresponsible rhetoric, Freedom to strip while selling beatle-nuts, Freedom to fist-fight, Freedom to travel to PRC, Freedom to ban PRC from coming to ROC, Freedom to ignore copyrights while being a member of the WTO...finally, and lastly freedom to contribute soft money to the USA congress.

3 cheers for the freedoms on the ROC.

"If it wasnt for American intervention in WW2, Europe would be speaking GERMAN."

How ignorant you are of Asian history. Chiang was a Nazi, he sent his 2nd son to study with the Nazi and invade Poland. Blue Collar Nazi doctrines are what ROC gov't is based on.

Don't forget our nukes, jet planes, stealth technology were all developed by the Nazi war machine.

"If it wasnt for American Intervention in WW2 China would now be called, the People's Republic of Japan."

No if USA had their wish China would had been divided at the Yang-Tze river into N. and S. China. Thank god the leaders of China at the time realized that was an unacceptable result for the civil war in ROChina.

"How can anyone, except a FOOL. deny that America WILL win a war with Iraq...(AGAIN)."

No denies that. But how much will your 401K shrink before the end of our campaign in Iraq. 70% of the USA citizen feel we should focus on domestic economy before the war on Iraq. Are you one of 30% fools that don't care about your own personal fiancial well-being or your fellow citizens?

"AC Dropout knows he picked the right side."

Of course I choose the right sides. I always support "my" side. Self interest is the only interest worth defending.

Right now my side feels domestic economy in the USA needs our leadership attention. The war on Iraq can wait and will wait until the UN gets done with its red tape. Till then we should find that white-red-neck of an American that sniping civilians in VA.
AC Dropout    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 at 16:13:25 (PDT)    [24.90.98.143]
B.E.Verins,

"how many people in Beijing are allowed to view and post to this website?"

The same amount of people in the USA would can view the Peoplesdaily.com discussion forum.

Each side of the pacific bans information from the other side. There is no moral high ground on the issue.
AC Dropout    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 at 15:56:03 (PDT)    [24.90.98.143]
While I'm for Taiwan independence, I have to agree that the USA is going to backstab Taiwan when it asks for help...

There is a possibility that the USA wants to USE TAIWAN as a chess piece in order to excuse an attack on China or, maybe even North Korea (it seems the present admnistration in the USA is capable of anything... any president who can coin the phrase "pre-emptively self defend" is capable of making any linkages he wishes... attacking North Korea from an indicent in Taiwan is perfect Bushian Logic)

There is a huge game of chess being played currently, and it seems that the "global chess game" has proceeded well past shifting pieces around for strategic placement - the pawns are falling, and the big pieces are lining up for the inevitable "chess bloodbath" where most of the pieces fall in a flurry of activity... :-)

Taiwan is a piece - perhaps not more than a pawn, but as we all know a pawn can be one of the most important pieces in any game of chess....

Basically, the bickering here solves nothing, but its good to see the various views.

I'm still wondering if mainland China websurfers can read this particular website?
B.E.Verins B.E.Verins@aol.com    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 at 12:55:16 (PDT)    [148.4.33.125]
huu76,

You really are misguided. The USA CIA used to officially fund Bin-Laden. We created him. China has nothing to do with Muslim terrorism. China has been fighting Muslim "freedom fighters" now called "terrorist" post 9/11. Get your facts straight about who funds what and where on this planet.

"especially if those toes belong to people who don't know what democracy is anyway"

You mean like the USA public. Read up on the 2000 elections. The Supreme Court opted not to recount the votes that year. Hmmmmmm....

One a side note it is probably another white guy sniping at people in VA. Home grown terror right in our backyard.

But honestly, at this rate ROC will just need to develop stronger economic ties with China if it is to prevent its own bankruptcy. USA is no longer a strong trading partner. At least not until Bush leave office.
AC Dropout    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 at 09:46:42 (PDT)    [24.90.98.143]

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