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Titan of
Tech Trials
PAGE 2 OF 7
MC: Back then all the fees per quarter [at UCLA] were $80.50. I had to take care of my living expenses but I always had several jobs. For a year or two I hashed at a sorority house -- so that was a lot of my meals -- and worked in dormitories -- switchboard and the mail -- and usually had three or so part-time jobs at the same time. So I had more than enough to live on.
GS: What was your MA in?
MC: Graduate program in interdisciplinary social sciences -- urban educational policy planning. I actually just fell into it because I was getting kicked out of being an undergraduate. I was forced at gunpoint to graduate. Then I was deciding what to do because of the Vietnam War. There were three choices. I was 1A and had a low draft number, so the choices were to join the Army, go to Canada or go to jail. One of the vice chancellors at UCLA I knew said, 'They're starting this new program. They have federal funding.' If I joined it I could get a stipend. They had a way to work things out so I could get a continuing deferment for a little period of time. I thought, 'No Army, get paid a little and get paid to be a student.' That sounded like a good thing.
GS: Is that the same reason for the PhD?
MC: Yeah.
GS: You managed to get that one year later. Isn't that pretty quick for a PhD?
MC: Guess so.
GS: What was that in?
MC: Same area, same program. I finished that and decided to do a little post-doctoral program that we were talking about earlier, learned a little bit of law. The law stuff was kinda interesting, so I thought maybe I'll learn a little bit more. It was also in keeping with my continuing to be a student. See there is a theme here.
GS: In 74 you got an MSL from Yale.
MC: I was doing post-doctoral work and at the end of it they said we're going to design a degree program and we'll grant you a degree and you'll be our first student getting the degree.
GS: What is an MSL?
MC: Master of studies in law. I was just learning a little bit of law.
GS: Why not just go to law school?
MC: I wasn't thinking about it at the time. I was curious. I was just thinking, well I'll do something for a while, do some reading and research, take a few classes, learn a little bit of something along the way.
CONTINUED BELOW
GS: You were getting so many degrees in such rapid succession. You got the first degrees at UCLA, then at Yale. You got the JD from Harvard in 76. In the space of 5 years you got 5 degrees. Were you trying to put together some constellation of expertise?
MC: That was the last thought on my mind. I just enjoyed being at school. If my wife hadn't accurately reasoned over time that I wanted to be a professional student... So I pled guilty. Perhaps if I had never met Helen I wouldn't have had her voice of conscience dissenting, 'Maybe you shouldn't spent your entire life being a student.'
GS: Were you being a drain on her?
MC: No, no. I think it was just good-natured kidding around, but left to my own devices, yeah I might be a student for the rest of my life.
GS: So you just have an innate curiosity about a wide range of subjects.
MC: Yeah, sounds right.
GS: Why did you decide to go to Harvard for law school? Why not just continue at Yale?
MC: Have you been to New Haven and to Boston?
GS: You preferred the Boston environment?
MC: That and Helen had a sister in Boston. Other things too.
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| "I thought, 'No Army, get paid a little and get paid to be a student.' That sounded like a good thing." |