Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:39:09 AM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

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Sorry to butt in on the Viet discussion, but I found someting quite interesting about Korea on the net:

http://210.104.87.69/n_eng/jeju_intro/item_14/item_14_01_01.asp

This is a well-designed webpage about the Island of Cheju, which is just off the Coast of Southern Korea, between Korea and Japan. According to the author, Cheju island is equidistant from Korea, Japan and mainland China; it has hence been a historically important trading post between the three nations. This has in all probability produced some genetic exchange also. Even more interesting are the maps on this page. During the Ice Age (20,000 to 10,000 BC), the Island of Cheju was part of a land bridge that connected China, Korea, and Japan.

In other words, archaic Asians roamed freely between what is now three isolated geographic regions. This could explain the general physical similarities bewteen the 3 main NorthEast Asian groups (Koreans, Japanese, North Chinese). Of course after the ensuing isolation after the melting of the Ice caps in the Ice Age, the divergent populations had evolved separately (ie. Chinese were influenced by Persia, Vietnam, Mongols, etc., Japanese by the Ainu, Polynesians, Koreans, the Koreans were influenced by Chinese, MAnchus, Mongols, etc.), but the general genetic similarities had been established.
Our Caveman ancestors were brothers. =P Thursday, July 25, 2002 at 13:10:46 (PDT)

Face it. All Asians (Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Indonesians, Malaysians, Thais, Laosians, Singaporeans, Burmese, Hawaiians, Taiwanese, all Pacific Islanders, and Mongolians) are somewhat related to the Chinese, one way or another.
dsfbcbsijbdax Thursday, July 25, 2002 at 09:13:21 (PDT)

Filipinos are the ones who can easily adapt other's culture.
Creo Thursday, July 25, 2002 at 07:54:57 (PDT)

The Traveller:

Do you have anything to prove Dong Son are malay-polynesians? In fact, the ancient inhabitants in Vietnam during Hoa Binh and Dong Son culture are Lac Viet(yueh).

Tộc Lạc Việt cũng là dân bản địa ở miền Bắc Việt Nam ngày nay, chính là chủ nhân ông của các nền văn hóa Sơn Vi, văn hóa Hòa Bình-Bắc Sơn, văn hóa văn minh sông Hồng - Phùng Nguyên - Ðồng Ðậu và Ðông Sơn.

www.mevietnam.org/index.a-html

I'd like to post the whole article however i don't think it would be appropriate since most people can't read the whole thing plus that's a waste of space.Once again, i'm Sorry to those who don't read Vietnamese.dammit impossible to find a english website.

Viethistory freak Thursday, July 25, 2002 at 07:07:23 (PDT)

yo...chinese:

i think Kim translate into chinese as Jin. Jin Young for example.
k Thursday, July 25, 2002 at 04:44:17 (PDT)

"When I visited China several months ago, with a group of Vietnamese, most Chinese thought that we were Chinese. "

Maybe they mistook you for mainland Chinese because you dressed as badly as them.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Tired of this discussion Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 23:29:01 (PDT)

Hafti posted this earlier, "Recorded there has been few/little han migration into vietnam, unless they were forced. Like the fall of the Ming dynasty brought tons of chinese in, and the forced migrations the han dynasty made (which were mostly to the Guangdong area anyways, thus the dissappearance of the Yueh loyalty and turned into Han loyalty in it's place). Also if we were so han, then why so many of the mistreatings of the vietnamese for being 'different'? If we were considered 'han' to them they wouldn't have mistreated the vietnamese to make them want to separate from a deal that was forced upon them anyways."

>>>>>I replied but unfortunately it was not posted. So i will post over again. Link: http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/south_china.html

"Two maps found in Tomb Number Three at Mawangdui record the civil and military dispositions on the frontier of Former Han against Nan-Yue in the early years of the second century, and they present magnificent examples of the early Chinese competence in cartography. For the most part, however, the frontier was not a disturbed one, and the government of Nan-Yue, under a royal house of Chinese origin, and owing much of its support to the immigrant Chinese population, had rather confirmed the incorporation of this territory into the Chinese cultural ambit."

"Under Former Han, the population of the commandery had been some seventy thousand, only half that of Cangwu, but we do not have figures from the census of Later Han. The main stream of colonisation may have passed this territory by, though it is possible the region benefited from highway and water communication along the upper reaches of the West River from Cangwu and then across the divide to the commandery of Jiaozhi in the Red River basin about Hanoi in present-day Vietnam. "

"We do not, unfortunately, have any census figures for the population of Jiaozhi commandery under the Later Han dynasty, but in 2 AD there were almost three quarters of a million people registered, more than in all the rest of the province put together, and it seems certain that the number of inhabitants must have reached above a million during the second century AD. Jiuzhen commandery increased by about a quarter, from 166,013 to 209,894, and we are told that Rinan gained more than 40 per cent, from just under 70,000 to just over 100,000: it seems likely, however, that this last figure reflects the situation at the time of greatest prosperity, before the rebellion and partial withdrawal of the late 130s.

Jiaozhi commandery, however, was the territory of greatest importance in this region of present-day Vietnam. Though the delta of the Red River did not extend so far into the Gulf of Tongking as it does at the present day, the area was broad and fertile, and provided a prosperous hinterland for trade and influence by land and sea. There were communications by land: northeast across the modern frontier into the upper reaches of the West River; and northwest into Yi province, where present-day Kunming in Yunnan was administered by Yizhou commandery, and where Later Han claimed suzerainty over the Ailao people and the new commandery of Yongchang about the Dali Lake. Longbian, moreover, was the major trading port for the South China Sea, with contact east along the coast to Nanhai, and south to the peninsulas and islands of southeast Asia and the straits which led to the Indian Ocean."

During the Yuan conquest, link: http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Song-Yuan/yuan.htm

" An intensive exodus of Chinese people to the southern sea also lead to the first foundations of Chinese communities in South East Asia, in Vietnam and later Singapur."

Here's one family from the Tang dynasty: http://members.tripod.com/vuhon/englisht.htm

Not to mention the Ming Dynasty, which An Nam guy had stated earlier. Oh well, it seems to me there are no Chinese living in Vietnam, but what do I know? Human has never reached to the moon...
The TraveLLer Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 23:22:46 (PDT)

For those who could read Vietnamese

I agree with An Wei...if you want to post on GoldSea, it is best to be polite to your hosts (the Goldsea Editors) as well as the visitors, who may or may not be able to read this, and translate the post into readable English.

An Wei

It's just a very long rambling post about the early history of Vietnam and Southern China, as well as Confucius' ideas regarding dancing, among other things. I got bored after a few paragraphs and stopped reading. Nothing to get upset about really, and no, it's not insulting to anyone at all. :)
MLK Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 22:17:16 (PDT)

Editing of "One question, this website theory stated that the "Yueh" was black (Negro-like) and had "wooly hair", is this a description of a modern Vietnamese? Yes, it mentioned that the "Yueh" once ruled and roamed China's land. "

websites:
1)http://www.lexiline.com/lexiline/lexi184.htm

2)http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bay/7051/DRAVIDIANS.html

3)
http://members.tripod.com/pointingbird/lostfeatherintl/id58.htm

4)http://members.tripod.com/pointingbird/lostfeatherintl/id59.htm

5)http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/ssuma2.html

6)
http://www.fcc.sophia.ac.jp/Faculty/Keally/Classes/StudyGuides/sg320.html

7)http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~kaplan/H370/ap06.pdf

8)http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~kaplan/H370/ap05.pdf

9)http://www.bvom.com/resource/vn_history.asp?pContent=Pre-History
*************IMPORTANT**************
Genetic important about the Yueh and the Dong Son:
http://imbs.massey.ac.nz/bio_evol/Topic6/Lahn-etal00.pdf
The TraveLLer Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 21:48:45 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

"http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/CB_2000_v10_p1237.pdf"

LOL, you didn't even read your OWN reference! It clearly says 11 SOUTHERN VIETNAMESE! It doesn't even include northerners, so how can it even state anything about the dong son? The dong son today are the muong, that's what happened. Try reading atleast your own reference please. Or was your point to try to get me to find it for you? (kidding)

Just to add on, muong hatred for chinese is even greater then that of the strongest kinh hatred for chinese. I should know (don't want to talk about it, being 50% chinese makes you a traitor somehow). They rejected all that's chinese, and yet they're light, they are dong son, and yet they are light. Malay are they? YES! Polynesian? NO! Vietnam isn't even in polynesia. The modern polynesians had influence from negroids also, hence the name malay-polynesian, opposed to just malay (in vietnams case). Like i said, refer to my Mon-Khmer example, where the Mon and Khmer are totally different people.
Hafti Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 21:18:33 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

"Many studies suggest that Muong peoples were indigenous inhabitants, masters of Hoa Binh culture (post stone age), masters of Dong Son culture (copper age)."

And

"As an indigenous clan of the same and long origin with that of Kinh people"

The muong and kinh are considered to be of same origin. The kinh origin is in debate. The muong ancestors are believed to be that of the people of the red river delta, written by history (of china, vietnam and other observing nations), and archaelogy. If the muong and kinh are related, the muong are descendents to the dong son. Then why can't the kinh have even some dong son blood? You seem to deny all dong son blood.

http://www.hoabinh.gov.vn/main_vanhoamuong_eng.html
Hafti Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 21:12:57 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Through archaelogical AND historical (chinese, vietnamese, and other observing nations), the MUONG are the descendents of the DONG SON! They AREN'T dark, with wooly hair like how people described the malay-polynesians today. The Muong and Viet are thought of as being of the same ancestor, but the viet are said to be of the yueh and the muong of up to the hoa binh and on to the dong son to today.

Malay and malay-polynesian is VERY different. If your truly a doctor you should know that. Like Mon-Khmer, Mon and Khmer are very different. Vietnamese are described as Malay, NOT malay-polynesian. If you don't know Mon is a minority group in upper vietnam who are light skinned, they have jutting jaws and such. The khmer are darker, closest descendent to be the modern cambodians. So you can see the difference can't you?

And your argument on how the northern chinese look like the people of vietnam. I rather take the words of someone who's northern chinese like Yo Chinese, who describes different then you. I believe the similarities between the southern chinese and vietnamese is from the common ancestors shared by both groups, as maps show that vietnam once spanned across guangdong and most of SE China and northern vietnam.

And your claims on trying to stuff your mouth, can you describe what i was stuffing in your mouth? You seem to be stuffing my mouth more then vice verca. I explained that the vietnamese origin theory was written 1000 years AFTER it was refered to by record (by the Trung sisters). Throughout these years anything could have added on or taken off. The ONLY part we know that's actually original from the story is the Hung Vuong era, due to the Trung sisters speeches which refer to those times. BUT she never said she was a descendent of Au Co, thus the possibility that it was added on later to make the vietnamese lineage more 'mystical' as most sites described how the person that first wrote it down strived for. Since you refer to viettouch so much, go back and read about how we wanted our legends, we wanted it to be just as 'mystical' as the chinese.

Also the dragon is more of a Yueh thing, and no the yueh WEREN'T chinese. Some of their descendents are, but from my knowledge, at that time there was no such thing as chinese, all their descendents aren't chinese (infact, most are viet), and also refer to my table theory. The Yueh constantly fought to avoid assimilation, but of course they were conquered. Also i said 'COULD' not 'WAS' trying learning the difference of meaning by LITTLE words, it really does help before you assume i mean something.

Also the muong are said to be the LEAST influenced by the chinese. They purposely stayed in the mountains to avoid anything chinese, they avoided anything chinese. YET they are light, and when you put them side by side with a viet you can't tell the difference. And they are considered the MAIN, or absolute descendents to the Dong Son. That only proves that things ARE STILL a mystery, and that the dong son is still a mystery. It only proves how imperfect our way of classifying is, and as a doctor you should have learnt that. That any type of classification can be changed, for example the thing on which family the vientamese language should be put under.

"You're making a false claim here. What I've been debating here is that the real Vietnamese are derived from mostly the "Yueh" not from the "Dong Son population" that you adhered to. Since the Dong Son was a Malayo-Polynesian, how could they be the major gene contributor to the modern Vietnamese? Don't put words in my mouth to win a debate, that's low my friend. I haven't play any low key on you yet, and it seems to me you come from a low class to even put words in my mouth."

Actually, i never said that the dong son had MORE influence over modern vietnamese, only that they were MAJOR contributors. EVEN IF they only hold 10% influence in us, that is still a MAJOR contribution, not the majority, but when did i say that? Trying to twist my words again? If that's what you were debating, then it doesn't show on how your wording your posts. From what you wrote, you seem to be denying ALL dong son influence, and saying that the vietnamese are just either han or yueh nothing else. I was begging the differ, that the dong son is a major contributor even if it is not as noticeable then the Yueh.

"Further, you've never set foot to the northern part of China and you concluded that the modern Vietnamese look more like a polynesian (Dong Son), what ridiculous statement is this?"

The only funny thing here, is that YOU HAVE NO IDEA what your saying. The dong son were described as malay, not polynesian. The malay-polynesians are a mixture of these two groups long ago. Like mon and khmer. Mon are light skinned (VERY LIGHT), and the khmer are dark skinned (ancestors to the cambodians to be exact) and yet the words mon-khmer exists. IT'S a form of imperfect classification, and as a doctor you should know that.

AND yes i never set foot in north china, but for some reason you say you did. AND yet i rather believe yo....chinese.. more then YOU, because he's actually northern chinese. And there's TSJ, who's southern chinese. He confirms that the dragon was more Yueh. STOP TRYING TO STUFF MY MOUTH WITH WORDS I DID NOT SAY. I know to a frenchie (sorry) words like IS AND COULD has no difference, but it does. When i say COULD it doesn't mean IS. TRY TO NOTICE LITTLE WORDS LIKE THAT, before you refer to my posts the way you did like the legends thing. TRY at least...

"By the way, most northern Vietnamese look more Chinese than you can described... The southerners, on the other hand, are different case."

Yeah and the funny thing is that the muong are considered to be the closest descendents to the dong son. Through recent escavations it is said by scientists that the bone structure is undenyably similar. YET they are light skinned, and don't look malay-polynesian. It only proves that the modern way of classification in some ways is flawed, and the Dong Son might not even have been polynesian at all.

Learn more of the muong. They resisted the chinese to the fullest, even living in the mountains, and rejecting anything chinese. Yet you might say they are light and can not be told apart when set with regular northern vietnamese. YOU CAN'T go by looks alone, and as a doctor i can't see why you don't act like one. The cambodians look very different but when checked for C-7 it was 60%. And they are dark.

Looking similar? From what northern chinese people say, i would say different. And the similarities is inherited by the Yueh, which is shared EQUALLY, if you can say the viets are chinese, then the chinese can be viets too in equal terms.
To, TSJ;

So THAT'S WHAT TSJ stood for! And i wouldn't say that vietnamese people WANT their daughters/sons to marrying an SE chinese, more like wouldn't mind. Parents want what's best for their children under some circumstances though (restricted areas).

To, Yo....Chinese..;

"I did not say that the Vietnamese are exactly like the Cantonese/Fujianese and want you to marry their daughters...
I simply made a point that the Viets are not that different from the Southern Chinese...at least not any more different than say..the Manchurians are different from the Southern Chinese.

You are right...
Vietnamese and Koreans have similarities...

Kim is a common last name in Vietnam and in Korea..."

The similarities between koreans and vietnamese is most likely something past down by the Yueh. As they were recorded to have used boats to go to korea and japan, but in small numbers.

I doubt that the han were a major ancestor, i wouldn't be surprised if i was a little han, but it's doubtful that they were huge in contribution. The similarities between the southern chinese and vietnamese i believe to be more of the fact that we share a common ancestor, rather then the han moved south and started to look like the southern chinese.

And moderator, what happened? I had alot of say, and now i forgot most of it...
Hafti Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 21:01:41 (PDT)

An Wei:

Please accept my apology. The info I posted was from the website www.mevietnam.org.and www.giaodiem.com, and unfortunately, these websites are not in English. also, i wanna now if Dr. Traveller can read Vietnamese (J/K).haha. really interesting articles which i can't find in any English website.

I'm really sorry, but i will try my best to translate the article into English.
For those who could read Viet Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 20:43:24 (PDT)

The traveller:

so au lac may not be a state...but Lac Viet is an ancient vietnamese name. FYI, malay are not the only people to practice tattoing. koreans and vietnamese do. Ancient viets tattoo dragon and Lac birds on chest, thighs.

one question: if the ede, bana are descendants of the Dong Son, do they possess or still preserve the Dong Son drums like the kinyhs do?
k Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 20:35:30 (PDT)

One question, this website theory stated that the "Yueh" was black (Negro-like) and had "wooly hair", is this a description of a modern Vietnamese? Yes, it mentioned that the "Yueh" once ruled and roamed China's land.

The closest Vietnamese ethnics that can be described as this type of characteristic are the Ba-Na, Brau, Cham, Co-Ho, Co-Tu, Ro-Man, and a few others.(http://www.vietnamtourism.com/e_pages/vietnam/54dantoc/bana.htm) Outside of Vietnam, I encountered the same type of ethnicity, such as the Tahitian, Samoan from New Zealand, Malaysian and the Australian aborigines. They are considered as Malay-Polynesian or AKA Austronesian. As a Vietnamese, I would say that the majority of modern Vietnamese doesn't look like much of a Malay-Polynesian type.

When I visited China several months ago, with a group of Vietnamese, most Chinese thought that we were Chinese. After seeing the Tahitian(including Morea, Bora-Bora and Tahiti), the Samoan of the New Zealand, the Aborigines of Australia, the Malaysian, the people of the northern, central and southern provinces of Vietnam(Hanoi& Hue, Saigon), Chinese (from Beijin to Guanzhou)...I conclude that modern Vietnamese looks more of a "Sino" type than "Malay-Polynesian" or "Austronesian".

If you care to travel, you will see what I meant.
The TraveLLer Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 16:41:09 (PDT)

for those who could read vietnamese,

THAT WAS very RUDE!!!
You have no consideration for anyone ELSE!
An Wei Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 13:50:12 (PDT)

Wonder what could happen to the Dong Son population (Malay-Polynesian)?

http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/CB_2000_v10_p1237.pdf
The TraveLLer Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 13:32:07 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Hmmm, for one of the sentences i said about the scientific ways of classification like mon-khmer and such. Replace incorrect, with imperfect, it makes for sense.
Hafti Wednesday, July 24, 2002 at 13:15:04 (PDT)

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