Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:39:09 AM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]

Let's dissect the fallacy of Hafti,

Here's what posted:http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/south_china.html

>>>>"we do not, unfortunately, have any census figures for the population of jiaozhi commandery under the later han dynasty, but in 2 ad there were almost three quarters of a million people registered, more than in all the rest of the province put together, and it seems certain that the number of inhabitants must have reached above a million during the second century ad."

it speaks of 3/4 of a million people registered. also noting the quote "...the number of inhabitants...". from this you can see that he included all that he considered people, and all the inhabitants. he counted the inhabitants. and noted that the yue were the majority. this means that the site itself that you brought up supports me in the fact that at that time the majority of the people were yue and not han."<<<<<

----Here're some of hafti's false logics.
a) There's no mention of the Yueh. And yet, our delusional friend here think it was all the Yueh. If this is the case, how did the Han controlled the province for 1000 years? On the other website, http://www.bvom.com/resource/vn_history.asp?pContent=Ancient_Time

In concurrence with the (www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/south_china.html#jiao) website, the "bvom" website stated at the same era, "...immigrated vast numbers of Han people into Viet country, taught Han language in an attempt of Sinicization of Viet"

And yet, our delusional friend, Hafti, rebutted to the websites and got into one of those psychological moods, perhaps delusion, debating that the commandery was the Yueh population.

b) The introduction of this article (of www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/south_china.html)
is about the Han migration to the South. It cleary stated the early pioneer immigrants were the Han.

c) A commandery is a district under the control of a commander of armed force. That's to say this is about the Han soldiers and their family, like what you seen in the old western movie with a U.S. calvary escorting a number of settlers.

d) Why would the Han consider to mix themselves with the barbarian? And yet, nothing in this article mentioned about the registered Yueh. Case in point, Hafti is delusion.

>>>>"are you ignorant? are you dumb? are you stupid? the hung vuong era has been noted to be a legend, which has many archaelogical back up to it towards the dong son. for this reason it is believed to have been a story from the dong son, which was so deviated and altered to the point of disbelief. this story was mentioned in a speech by the trung sisters one thousand years before it was written in that book you keep on talking about. this is proof that the age of the legend must be extremely old, but because it was written so much later (one thousand years later), it must have been deviated like any other story in any other country. the funny thing is that your so ignorant and didn't see that fact. that even in vietnam it is considered a legend, and to be very little support for history. but because of it's plot, and it's old age, we can read it to see if it can lead us anywhere (so far it only leads us to the delta). smell the coffee."<<<<

----And yet, we know that the Dong Son culture were the "Negrito", as Hafti documented on several of his posted websites. The Dong son were the Malay-polynesian/Austronesian (Melanesian), in which they were not the same race as the modern Vietnamese (a Mongoloid race, not a Malay-polynesian).

>>>>"Like i said, can you explain to me, the LACK OF CHINESE INFLUENCE on the Muong? They have no linguistic relations with the chinese language, and neither do they have anything common in culture. And yet they can be described to have the same physical looks as the northern vietnamese do in north vietnam. From common knowledge, the vietnamese once practiced animism (sp?) just like the Muong do. We hold dearly the Dong Son drums, just like the Muong do. And we have an extremely similar language to the Muong."<<<

Funny, but if the Muong were to derive from the Dong Son and they have no Chinese influence, can someone tells me how do the Muong get the Han's last name? Further, the way how the Dong Son wore their clothing didn't look any similar the Muong (for description check out this website and read how the Dong Son wore their garments). Again, their no Chinese influence in the Muong. Now hafti, point to a website that stated that the Muong didn't have any influence from the Chinese, and that they retained 100% Dong Son culture. Or is it your believe again?

>>>" We hold dearly the Dong Son drums, just like the Muong do. And we have an extremely similar language to the Muong.

Looks are the same, language is similar to the extreme, and history also says we're related. Including past culture, which is still practiced today by them, and we note ourselves to have practiced that same religion in the past. Can you explain this? The EXTREME difference from the chinese, even different to what the chinese were two thousand years ago when the Yueh migrated in, and different to whatever the chinese were before that."<<<

Yeah right, go to any polynesian islands, the Dong Son culture is more vivid there than in Vietnam. And the Polynesian's bone structure and genetic material resemble the Dong Son culture more than the Modern Vietnamese. They, the Dong Son and Malay-Polynesian, were Melanesian(Negrito). While there is a very small culture influence by Dong Son than the Chinese culture, why can it be that the Chinese(a mongoloid race) who migrated to the Red Delta Valley during the 1st century A.D. got a little influence by the indigeneous people? Comparing the Muong and the Pacific Polynesian, the Polynesian tend to share more of a culture with the Dong Son. Even recorded by the British, Philipine, Indonesian, New Caledonia and other Pacific polynesian government agencies, the migration of the Dong Son cannot be denied.

"The Hoabinhians seem to have been of a commanding stature, six feet or so tall, with heavy bones, and possessed of large skulls with massive jaws and well-developed brow ridges. Their only known products were crudely chipped hand axes that can only with some difficulty be recognized as tools rather than naturally occurring rocks. Their skeletons are remarkably similar to present- day Melanesians, such as the people of New Caledonia and the Loyalty Islands. It is therefore thought that Australoids were the original “modern men” of this part of the globe, and that they were absorbed, driven to the uplands or pushed eastward by waves of Caucasoid and Mongoloid migration. These first modern men of the area seem to have been cannibals, as crushed human bones are found alongside discarded shells and debris of such prey animals as tapirs, elephants, deer and rhinoceri."

Source: http://members.fortunecity.com/dikigoros/themalays.htm

And here and coherence link to the above that I borrow brom "VNinterest": http://www.andaman.org/book/chapter6/text6.htm

"A few archaeological traces of populations with Negrito-Papuan-Austro-Melanesian affiliations have been found all over Indochina and southern China, some of it dating back 40,000 years. There are sites in Perak (Malaysia) older than 30,000 years and in Krabi (southern Thailand) between 27,000 and 38,000 years, to give just two examples. No archaeological proof of Negritos has so far been found in Burma (Myanmar) which has not been investigated archaeologically at all well but Burmese folk tales do seem to remember Negritos. They tell of short, dark-skinned, fuzzy-haired cannibal ogres who lived on the mouth of the great rivers and on islands off-shore. The situation is much clearer in Vietnam where the oldest known human population has unquestionably been Negrito. Skulls identified as Negrito have been found along the coast of Vietnam and dated to between 25,000 and 50,000 years. In Vietnam, the Negritos were replaced by (or perhaps developed into) people of Australoid and Melanesian type during the later Paleolithic, around 7000 years ago. Austroasiatic people (the ancestors of the Khmer and Champa) arrived still later and the last to arrive, only 2500 years ago, were Mongoloid immigrants from southern China. The present Vietnamese people are a very complex mixture of all these races. The ancient Negrito element has left traces, especially in the mountain tribes of southern Vietnam, which supports the view that they were not so much driven out or exterminated but absorbed by the later arrivals."

And using this pacific migration source, not to mentioned those who migrated to the Philipine and Indonesia:http://www.samoa.co.uk/pacific-migration.html

----Combining these three sites, it seems that the mongoloid race overan the Dong Son (Melanesian) away from their territory to possibly any pacific islands, thus later creating the modern Vietnamese, who is also a Mongoloid race. The Dong Son were NOT a MONGOLOID race.

>>>>"so until you can find a credible site, all i can say is that modern vietnamese are mongoloid. the chinese are sure that we are descendents to the yueh. they know we are mongoloid, hence the reason why they think we are descendents to the yue is because of the fact that everything connects. go look it up on the worlds most notable encyclopedia (britannica.com). "<<<

---Nothing in the Britanica stated that the "Yueh" were a mongoloid race. Show me a website that stated that the "Yueh", not the modern Vietnamese, were a mongoloid race. Put up or shut up.

>>>>"i hope you know that trieu da has always been noted to be a chinese. but, he was the same guy that executed all that was loyal to the chinese. he was assigned to be the governor of nam viet, but he committed treason and became ruler. he has been admitted into the vietnamese society, not the other way around, where he turned the vietnamese into chinese. "<<<

Oh I get it, Trieu Da (Zuo To) rode his donkey to the South where his former enemy the "Yueh" tribes, who hated him before, accepted him with gratitude to be their emperor. Trieu Da(Zuo To) was an one man show, I guess. He was a delusion Chin's general, like your delusional thinking mind would portray of course, who rode his donkey by himself to conquer the territory "Nam Viet/ Nan Yueh" and in one second gained the territory without the help of other Chin's soldiers and their family. Of course, he executed all the Chinese loyalists but himself and was accepted by the "Yueh" tribes as an emperor without any fight. Sounded familiar to a fairy, don't you agree? But just for you, Hafti,..hhhuuhh, uhhh, hmmmm I start to believe.

Until then, provide me a source that the "Yueh" were a mongoloid race and that 30% of the modern Vietnamese have "Sinodontoid". We all know that the Han and the Chin dynasty were a "Mongoloid race", but can you prove your theory that the "Yueh" were also a mongoloid race, since the modern Vietnamese are a mongoloid race. The Dong Son were "negrito", a melanesian or Malayo-polynesian, so that ruled out the idea of the Dong son is anything but close to the Modern Vietnamese. The modern Vietnamese, during the French occupation, were also called the "Annamite". Your turn now...put up or shut up. Bring out the sources and we'll talk. Or quit wasting my time.
The TraveLLer Friday, August 23, 2002 at 09:56:54 (PDT)

Korean Dude,

Both the Mongols and Northern Han Chinese uniformly have dry earwax. This is also true for Koreans, Japanese and south Chinese.

Mongols don't even come close (only 35-40%) to having the Y Chromosome 7 paternal genetic marker. 95% of all Han Chinese (north and south) have it.

No, they do not have the same fathers.
Asian genes Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 23:28:34 (PDT)

rare stuff,

I agree with a lot of what you say. Modern Iranians are still for a most part, a Caucasoid race (kindred to the Aryan tribes in India and Afghanistan).

But, if you studied its history, you will find that not once, not twice, but many times, it has mixed with incoming Central Asians (Mongols, and especially various Turkish tribes) as well as Han Chinese. To say that the Iranians did not mix with these incomers over a 2,000 year period is simply total denial of reality. Iran's people mostly have Blood Type B (unlike West Europeans who have A type). Blood Type B is common in China, Mongolia and Central Asia. Surprisingly, neighboring Turkey (an Altaic speaking nation) is for the most part, Blood Type A. Because we know Turks are really Aryans who adopted an Altaic language. While, most Iranians have some type of East Asian admixture. You clearly see it in the second girl's pics. She can pass for Chinese, Filipina or Hapa.

Iran was the middle focal point of the silk trade routes in the past. People from the east as well as the west stopped at that center of the road and obviously mixed.

If you have read the Iranian epic ("Shahnama"), you find that the author sings praise for the beauty of children born to Iranian women and Turkish fathers. He mentions the peculiar eye shapes of the children as one feature of this beauty. At the time of this writing of the epic, the Seljuk Turks had arrived in Iran and ruled. Iranians are the only Caucasian and non-Asian group who historically saw "beauty" in East Asian.

OK, you also mention the epicanthic fold. Although Mongols and "unmixed" nomadic Turks have it, the Chinese do not all have it. So, it is possible that the Asian admixture in Iran was with Chinese and not just Mongols/Turks. It was known that the Mongols deported and transplanted many Chinese to other parts of the Mongol empire (eg Russia and Iran). Tabriz (in modern Azerbaijan province of Iran) once housed a large Chinese living quarter during the Ilkhan (Mongol) Dynasty in Iran, circa 1260s AD. They filled up positions (bureaucratic, arts, etc.) left vacant by the slain native Muslims. In a way, they were elites over native Muslims and must have also had their pick of women. The Ilkhan minister in Iran, Bolad Ching Sang, obviously a man from China, had more than 10 wives (all Iranian Muslim). This is how people mixed interracially in the past.
Iran is more hapa compared to Europeans Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 23:24:39 (PDT)

Hafti,

But, other studies have shown that subgroups of northern Han actually cluster with the Han of the south. Chu et al. came up with samples that show the people of Henan and the Hui of Shaanxi clustering more with southern Han than they did with the northern Han of Beijing. Likewise, the southern Han of Yunnan clustered more with the northern Han of Beijing and even the Manchus of Heilongjiang than they did with other southern Han.

In other studies, they have even shown the genetic distance of Vietnamese and Cambodians being part of the northern Asian branch (Mongols, Manchus and Siberians) than they did with Malayans or even Han (north and south).

People once only looked at mtDNA (maternal lineage). They should also focus on Y chromosome and haplotypes, which solves the other half of the genetic puzzle.

ps---95% of all Han (north and south) have the Y Chromosome 7 paternal genetic marker. It is a safe bet that all Chinese have the same fathers.
look at more than one study!!! Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 19:20:52 (PDT)

Korean dude,

Dogs are white man's "best friend." No argument there.

Dog is not a meat of choice among the Chinese. Many eat it for medicinal purposes. From the Chinese who told me about it, the dog meat does not even taste good. It is rubbery.
bow wow wow Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 19:13:34 (PDT)

Not all Iranians are Euro-Caucasoids,

You are right. Those blacks you saw on those pics are largely confined to the Kish island (near Persian Gulf). They are from a caste of slaves. You see more of it among Arabs (who mixed with black female slaves).

There are also Mongoloid specimens to the north and east of Iran:

http://www.iranian.com/Features/Dec97/Azizi/index2.html

http://www.irankicks.com/images/playersphoto/azizi/aziziford.jpg

http://www.irankicks/com/images/playersphoto/azizi/pic5.jpg

Khodadad Azizi was Iran's best soccer player. He now plays for the San Jose MLS team. He is most likely a member of Iran's Hazara tribes (Mongol descended).
There are not only Aryans in Iran Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 19:11:00 (PDT)

Korean Dude,

(Why isn't it okay to eat dogs?")

-Good question.

The answer may be surprising. Originally only some nomads (Iranians, Aryan Indians) and some hunter tribes (weren't allowed to eat dog meat because the dogs was kind of holy for them. That led them to very strange customs...and the taboo regarding dog's and horses' meat.

In Asia our ancestors were mostly progressive regarding dog meat. But the more Western a people the stranger become the customs. E.g. for the ancient Persians the dog had ritual privileges in comparison to human women...-holy dogs and horses...if someone eats their meat he "will be reborn in hell"...

If you ask me: either these people who don't try out dog meat are extremely stubborn or so superstitious that they are alredy nearly on stoneage level in cultural terms.
rare stuff Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 15:09:45 (PDT)

Hey Korean Dude,

You must have mistaken the earwax thing with someone else. Please go back and read who posted the earwax subject...surely, it wasn't me. I have never mentioned anything earwax. Hmmm, weird?
The TraveLLer Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 14:49:22 (PDT)

No body can take the history of Aryan land and change it. Indians are pure peoples. Our ancient texts warn against interacial/ interchaste/interjatiya/ interethnic marriages and warns its bad consequences. Go away foregn plant. You cannot destroy Hindu purity.
yayati Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 14:42:10 (PDT)

"We hold dearly the Dong Son drums, just like the Muong do. And we have an extremely similar language to the Muong.

Looks are the same, language is similar to the extreme, and history also says we're related."

Yeah, if I'm living in the US, wearing a Levi's Jean, riding a Harley's bike, and dyed my hair blond, I'm a Caucasoid race even thought my parents are Asian. Funny logic... Try harder
The TraveLLer Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 14:07:39 (PDT)

Hey Korean Dude,

You posted, "You sound like you are contradicting yourself. You said in one of your posts that the Han Chinese have yellow, sticky and almost liquid earwax. Then you said in your other post that the Mongolians in Northeast China have dry, brownish earwax. You also said that these two tribes were biologically similar since they lived in the same geographic area although gnerations apart. The people in these two tribes were the same physically and culturally. How can you conclude this based on two different types of earwax presented?"

Please show me where did I say anything about earwax? I so curious where you get that idea.
The TraveLLer Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 14:02:47 (PDT)

In the Philippines we slice and dice the meat and deep fry it for "pulutan" while chugging down some booze. Some eat it with rice
Fil Guy 20 Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 13:53:46 (PDT)

Here we go again!!! You people are TOO obcessed and stuck on this Genetics/DNA topic. Why are you so concerned about it? Like I said earlier, I think Goldsea set up this topic to discuss how Asians of all nationalities think of one another or talk about your experiences with people of different nationalities. I don't think they attended for you guys to LITERALLY "Compare Asian Nationalities" in regards to DNA,Genetics,Biology, or the link between Asian and Caucasians.Do you people even get it??!!

And KOREAN DUDE, you discussed why there is a double standard on how Americans complain about Asians eating dogs when Americans eat rabbits,deers,alligators etc.. First of all, why would anyone wanna eat a dog?!! That is so disgusting. And I don't think the typical everyday American even eats any of the animals that you have mentioned. And if you would kill and eat a dog, why not shoot it and end its life as quick as possible and not torture the damn thing. I once saw this news piece on some news show and these Koreans tied ropes around the dog's neck and hanged it from a tree. And the dog was fighting for his life. And I heard the Koreans like to torture the dogs before killing eat cause the meat will taste better. They said it's the rush of adrenaline and blood that makes the meat tastes better.
People in here think they're anthropologist Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 13:52:32 (PDT)

Hafti,

Lack of the chinese influence on the Muong? Look at how the muong dressed.

Give me the genetic of the Vietanmese, the Muong, and the Chinese...then we talk, and also the 30% of the sinodontoid in Vietnamese.

So far you have not provide anything yet, your point is invalid...

Provide the source than we talk.

Especially, pin point out that the Yueh are a Mongoloid race.

I'm still waiting!
The TraveLLer Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 13:48:54 (PDT)

To, Korean Dude;

" I think it is a double standard.. People in America eat rabbits, deer, alligator and squirrells.. Why isn't it okay to eat dogs?"

Maybe because dogs can be loyal. I've never heard of a rabbit, deer, alligator or squirrel saving a man's life! But then again, who know's it's all on how you were raised to dine. If you eat beef regularly, it would be weird to meet a vegetarian, and vice verca.

And for some reason in some of my posts my Capitals and periods dissappered! Or did i forget to add them in when i was typing (eh, i didn't edit my stuff, but i'm sure i always but in capitals). Oh Well.

And no there is no such thing as a west viriginia in asia. Marrying a relative has always been banned from mainstream asian thought in most/all countries of confucious influence (Vietnam, China, Korea, Japan...etc...).
Hafti Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 13:03:17 (PDT)

To Hafti,
It's called 'The New England Journal Of Medicine' check with your biology teacher when you go back to school
Foot Man Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 12:47:22 (PDT)

To, Editor;

SORRY, i didn't realize there were such policies on wasting time. Even so i didn't realize the all Cap phrases were that annoying. Hmmm, i guess i'll try to just cap the important words, it might be better. And i'll TRY to not waste your time on the carriage returns :D

Just a few more then i'll stop...

To, Korean Dude;

Like i said, what your saying is NOT TRUE, if you read it then give me a link to this article so i can spam him for lying.

In a traditional Viet and Muong household, the family usually tracks the family of the future spouses family to the 3rd generation (so if your related to my great great grandfather in anyway, the marriage it off), but most families i know go farther then the 3rd generation to track to see if there is any family relation, if there is, once again the marriage will be off. It is part of the vietnamese (kinh and even the muong) tradition.

If you were talking about the minority groups, of which vietnam has over 50, then i want you to tell me which minority group. Because it was made illegal just a few years ago by the vietnamese government to force minority groups to go with the viet traditions.

In vietnam it's even ILLEGAL, in the USA it's NOT illegal, but just considered sick. In Vietnam, it's both sick and illegal. In China i think it's like the USA it's sick but not illegal.

But i've heard that Chinese people can marry their cousins, and it's ok! But only on their mom's side, not on their father's side (which is forbidden). It could all be a lie, like what you said about viets.

Like i said, if you don't believe me then ask any viets you know (which you probably know none, hence your little comment) about it, ask how many generations of relations you have to avoid, or how many generations do families check up to for relations before the marriage is cancelled.

Here's the case in MY family. We check up to the 9th generation (or so said by my elders, i think they check up to only 3rd officially), and we can't marry anyone with the same last name (in Vietnam's case there are no branches of Nguyens, so in korea a lee can marry another lee, but only if they're different branches, but in Vietnam because there are no branches, it's totally forbidden, or atleast in my family). And there's some policy on not marrying chinese (which is old, and broken many times, hey, i'm half chinese :P).

If you don't trust me go check it up on vietnamese wedding traditions, and vietnamese laws. Go to vietfun.com or something where you can find someone in vietnam or someone who's vietnamese.
Hafti Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 12:47:08 (PDT)

[Thanks. As with all things, when it comes to caps, less is more. --Ed]

To, Korean Dude;

What an idiot. It's actually OUTLAWED. It used to happen only to the minority groups (Hmong i think), but then the Vietnamese made it illegal so they can officially stop them from doing it too. Something like 3rd generation. If i'm a 3rd generation cousin to you i can't marry you, EVER!

If i know your related, even to the 10th generation, then it's illegal, but if i didn't know, and your 3rd then it's ok.

What an article, such lies.
Hafti Thursday, August 22, 2002 at 12:30:13 (PDT)

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